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Author Topic: A distinct lack of goblinite  (Read 1073 times)

GhostDwemer

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A distinct lack of goblinite
« on: February 21, 2011, 02:51:37 pm »
I've been making some pretty nice maps using GIMP, Wilbur, and Perfect World. I design the continent or island in GIMP, erode it with Wilbur, and turn it into a DF map with perfect world. Now I seem to have a problem in 31.19, gobbos simply do not last on my worlds! I have created only one world from this map that had goblins after year 200, Usually, by 200 there are no goblins left on my map. Maps genned using the normal world gen don't seem to have this problem. I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary with my maps, meaning I have a reasonable mix of all biomes present, a reasonable amount of savage and calm areas, and so forth. The maps aren't too rough, which can cause real problems with caverns and magma, in fact ever since generating an inside out world with the caverns intermixed with the terrain, I've given my bitmaps a few Gaussian blurs before loading them into PW just to be sure. So, any ideas why my gobbos keep dying? Anyone else having a problem with lack of goblins? I would like to keep using my custom maps, as I feel they are far more realistic looking, but I can't play without gobbos, what's the point?
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FuzzyZergling

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Re: A distinct lack of goblinite
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2011, 05:32:52 pm »
I think they only spawn in evil areas.
You could also try running the history for a very short number of years, so they don't have time to get wiped out.
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JmzLost

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Re: A distinct lack of goblinite
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2011, 05:59:22 pm »
According to Toady, "people eat and starve in world gen now."  http://bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html

A lot of people have been having similar issues, I personally have several Dwarf civs that have been starved out.  Some of them died out in year 16, some made it to the mid 70s, and 2 made it as far as 550, when world gen ended.  There may be a fix in 31.20 (when it comes out), or we may have to wait for more of the caravan arc to be completed.  Right now I'm just playing with the new features, I won't try a serious fort until more of the caravan arc is done.

JMZ
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Quote from: Auto Slaughter on October 10, 2010, 11:58:53 pm
Also, obviously, magma avalanches and tsunamis weren't exactly a contingency covered in the mission briefing.
Quote from: DuckThatQuacks on September 29, 2010, 04:08:11 pm
I can assure you that Ardentdikes is not the first fortress to be flooded with magma. What's unusual is that we actually meant to flood it with magma.

GhostDwemer

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Re: A distinct lack of goblinite
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2011, 08:42:41 pm »
Seen it in several stock world gens too. Chalk it up to the vagaries of the new trade system and starvation during world gen.
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squeakyReaper

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Re: A distinct lack of goblinite
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2011, 08:51:54 pm »
Goblins do not have to eat.
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sambojin

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Re: A distinct lack of goblinite
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2011, 09:06:49 pm »
There's about three things that make the "starve out or die out" thing a problem.

#1 It only seems to happen to dwarves and goblins. I've lost quite a few dwarf civs in year 4 to this. It has to do with their favoured biomes as far as I know. Mountains make for crappy farming (and underground food production seems a little whacked now. I'm pretty sure this is why we don't need mud to farm now. But you also have next to no above ground plants to offset it).

#2 Randomisation of civilisations. You'll find that if you try and embark as a particular type of civilisation there's a good chance that they won't have seed's (or drink) as an embark option. This means the civ you're from doesn't use them (and won't trade for them). This screws the AI in world gen to pretty much go into "no-farming" mode for that civ. Hello starvation mode more like. You read the legends mode, the dwarfs (or gobs) all go into whatever farming/gathering trades they can just before they die. They do it too late, or they can't use what they have until too late, I'm not sure.

#3. With civ randomisation you may get a lot of civs that don't use the ore of a metal. Or don't use the bars of a metal. Coupled with the fact that a lot of sites don't have a great deal of metal to begin with, this greatly hamstrings any civ with these problems. Goblins and dwarfs get wiped out by all kinds of stuff because they either can't use the metal (even for trade) or don't get any decent metal at their first site or two. Instant death in a war when you're coming at them with sticks vs bronze wielding humans.

I'm pretty sure this more or less outlines the current problems with world genning in relation to starvation and death for no real reason. There's probably more.

I expect 0.31.20 to be tweaked slightly in civ randomization and maybe mineral content.
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GhostDwemer

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Re: A distinct lack of goblinite
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2011, 12:25:00 am »
Hehe, I had been playing on a map with no real glacial areas. I had set it up to be cold in the north, where there was more ocean, and just rejected any maps that came up cold in the south. I let one go with cold in the south where there is more land to see what would happen, and sure enough, there are goblins down there now, 250 years later. Maybe living in the arctic helps ensure at least some tribes of goblins survive? I just found a perfect site too, clay and bees, plenty of trees, chalk and limonite, and that's just what I can see on the surface.  Maybe I'll find some coal this game? If not, I guess I am burning every tree in sight.
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