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Author Topic: Can't get anywhere with training an army  (Read 1196 times)

xtc

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Can't get anywhere with training an army
« on: January 15, 2011, 02:14:20 pm »

I can't get anywhere with the military.

I've created several squads.
Set their alert to be on a training schedule.
Each schedule features one month on, one month off training set to half the squad size minimum (5 out of 10).
I have built several barracks.
I go to the barracks and turn on training for squads there.

I see them sparring and running around the barracks the whole time. I get sparring reports. BUT their stats never get any better. I've probably been playing nearly ten years of in game time, and these guys just don't progress. They all have zero skills in any military discipline.
I am using Dwarf Therapist to manage jobs and look at their skills by the way - maybe it's a bug that DT isn't picking up their military skills?

Initially I trained them with some equipment, but they got slaughtered the whole time. I read that you should make them good at wrestling first. So I gave all the squads a 'no equipment' uniform.

I'm cross training with woodcutting and mining in their 'off' months, with the archer squads set to be hunters. (They all train as wrestlers on their 'on' months right now).

I'm building a 'danger room' right now. I wonder if that will help? I worry that my dwarfs are so inept that they won't be ready for it.

Just about every civilian job is being done by one or more 'legendary' skilled dwarfs at this stage. But the military, after the greatest efforts, are still a bunch of bumbling greenhorns.

Just to throw salt in the wound there is no flux on my map and the traders resolutely refuse to bring any, but that's another issue...

Please help!
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Erkki

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Re: Can't get anywhere with training an army
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2011, 02:38:34 pm »

Make max 3-dwarf squads for training. Train around the clock. It helps to have them at similar military skill levels initially (ie. all 0s).

If their barracks is right next to dining hall and booze storage, they will level up from 0 to 7-8 in their weapon and fighter skills, less so in others, in just one year. This way, if you dont play some Fun Challenge but a normal DF fort I dont think you ever really need to use a danger room.
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FuzzyZergling

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Re: Can't get anywhere with training an army
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2011, 02:39:44 pm »

Try setting them to train all the time.
Yes, they will get a bad thought, but it might help.

Also, you shouldn't have miners/woodcutters in the military, it messes with their uniforms and food/drink claiming.
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shlorf

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Re: Can't get anywhere with training an army
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2011, 02:50:08 pm »

Even a completely green dwarf won't die to the training spears in the danger room if he's covered in armor and a few leather cloaks (have a newby carpenter make the spears to be sure). I will assume you are playing 3.18 (latest version).
Yes military training is slow if you don't use a danger room, but seeing no skill increase after 10 years is definitely not normal. I have had good results with the following schedule: 6 months training 10 minimum 6 months no scheduled order (civilian jobs all off all the time). The dwarfs will do individual combat drills in the time without schedule (raises their weapon skill, they need to have a weapon equipped of course). They will do demonstrations and spar in other months. For this to work the squad has to be equipped all the time (don't change their uniform to inactive:civilian clothes).
If you use dwarf therapist you can screen the migrants for dwarfs that already have some combat skills (shield user primarily as it trains the slowest but helps a great deal with a good quality shield), and possibly ones with some levels in student and teacher social skill. Put a few of these guys into each squad and you should see some better progress.
I think what might be happening to you is that the constant switching from civilian to soldier every month makes your dwarfs never finish any training activity (low skill soldiers take a long time to <organize [combat skill] demonstration>).

As for your flux problem if your parent civilization has a diplomat you can request the stones in the stone section while doing the trade agreement (request all flux type stones they have available), and additionally request steel and pig iron bars.
I don't want to spoil anything but know that there are rumors of a metal that is even better than steel.

Make max 3-dwarf squads for training. Train around the clock. It helps to have them at similar military skill levels initially (ie. all 0s).

If their barracks is right next to dining hall and booze storage, they will level up from 0 to 7-8 in their weapon and fighter skills, less so in others, in just one year. This way, if you dont play some Fun Challenge but a normal DF fort I dont think you ever really need to use a danger room.

Try this as well, you can also make flasks and backpacks to lower the time drinking and eating takes.
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xtc

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Re: Can't get anywhere with training an army
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2011, 03:11:09 pm »

OK I will try these ideas, thanks.

I read here:
http://forum.toribash.com/showthread.php?t=208650

That this guy "got them all set to just leave their stuff on even off-duty". How do I do this, or is that for an older version?
Yes, I'm playing the latest 2010 version.

I assumed the guys would starve to death if I set them to train all the time, and I read that you should cross-train your army which is why I had them doing other things:
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Cross-training

I don't want them to do other things - these are purely military dwarfs - but I got the impression that some civvy jobs would help develop them?
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FuzzyZergling

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Re: Can't get anywhere with training an army
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2011, 04:23:12 pm »

Civilian jobs do not give experience at a rate higher than the natural skill decay, which was not as bad in earlier versions.
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Mechatronic

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Re: Can't get anywhere with training an army
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2011, 05:58:09 pm »

Military squads can be active all of the time. They will leave the barracks to eat, sleep and drink. They will also collect better armour and weapons if you make it, restock any flasks/waterskins or backpacks if they have them and grab ammo if the squad is assigned it. Basically, once the squads are set up you should be able to leave them to their own devices until you need them to kill stuff. The main problem with having them active is that it gives them a bad thought after a while. This is like any other bad thought though, you can overcome it with good thoughts.

To set them to wear their military uniform all the time, go to the military screen, select a squad, then go to schedule, then toggle u. An option on the screen will switch between "u: Inactive = Civ clothes" and "u: Inactive = Uniformed".
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Quietust

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Re: Can't get anywhere with training an army
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2011, 06:47:31 pm »

The main problem with having them active is that it gives them a bad thought after a while.

However, once they train enough that thier weapon skills reach "Great" level and they become Elite soldiers, they will no longer get unhappy thoughts from being on duty.
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It's amazing how dwarves can make a stack of bones completely waterproof and magmaproof.
It's amazing how they can make an entire floodgate out of the bones of 2 cats.

martinuzz

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Re: Can't get anywhere with training an army
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2011, 09:26:32 pm »

This thread inspired me to write this guide. It might help you:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=75200.msg1886315#msg1886315
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http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479