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[Argembarger]

Lurky? Harsh, bro.

What was I supposed to do? Start talking to myself?

[Zathras]

Yeah, it was unfortunate, but it certainly wasn't Arg's fault. He's not too lurky a guy in general, and did an honest effort here. Pandar and Leaf are active enough when they want, and I took Native and Ottofar at their word that they'd try. I thought repeated notices on how inactivity wouldn't be tolerated, and specifically requesting it from both when they in'd would suffice, but apparently didn't.

I'm glad you guys liked the flavour. I mostly blame myself for the game's sad fate: the false start and duplicated role PMs were perhaps too much to get well engaged into the game. I originally had given individual names to George, Paul and Ringo, letting myself be carried away by the flavour, and had to backtrack on that. I think that's what ultimately killed it, and I'll know better for next time.

Oh well. Live and learn.

[Vector]

Wait... why is it a problem to tell one townie that he's George, another Paul, and a third Ringo?  I didn't quite understand that part.

[JanusTwoface]

You were lurky this game.  Not saying it like it's the end of the earth.  Heck, it's a decent enough strategy for scum. Gets you in trouble if the town is watching for it, but that definitely wasn't the case here.

You could always try something like I did at the beginning of VM4... (NOTE: I don't suggest this, it's a good way to raise your blood pressure to unhealthy levels)

But you (all, everyone playing every game of mafia ever ) need to get people talking.  I don't really have an answer to that, but just lying around and waiting for other people to talk isn't generally the way to go.  You have to come out of the gate swinging!

TL;DR: That was less directed at you than at Pandarsenic, Leafsnail, and Ottofar.  They all lurk, they all know it, and they weren't giving an effort here.

[webadict]

Wait... why is it a problem to tell one townie that he's George, another Paul, and a third Ringo?  I didn't quite understand that part.

Massclaim:

I'm Ringo.

"I'm George"

"I'm Paul!"

"Err... No, I'm Ringo!"

[Vector]

Ohh, okay.  It's not a problem with individualized townie naming in general, it's a problem with declarative flavoring.

Thanks.

[IronyOwl]

Ohh, okay.  It's not a problem with individualized townie naming in general, it's a problem with declarative flavoring.

Thanks.

Well, the same issue applies whenever you know there's exactly X of Y.

[webadict]

Ohh, okay.  It's not a problem with individualized townie naming in general, it's a problem with declarative flavoring.

Thanks.

Well, the same issue applies whenever you know there's exactly X of Y.

There's exactly 3 Townies out of 5 players!

[Vector]

Right, of course.  Sorry, I barely slept last night, and it's making me stupid today.

[Leafsnail]

Well, as scum, I will lurk if the town's lurking (think Bellsounder).  I dunno, a dead game is a good game from scum perspective.

Ohh, okay.  It's not a problem with individualized townie naming in general, it's a problem with declarative flavoring.

Thanks.

It is always a problem if there's a limited pool of names.  So, if I ran a game like this:

Townie A
Townie B
Townie C
Townie D
Townie E
Townie F
Townie G
Mafioso
Mafioso

And had it open, it would actually be completely unwinnable for the mafia.  The original setup of this game was winnable for the scum, but town would win 75% of the time through pure random lynching, and they'd have a confirmed townie to help them get it right.

The way to avoid falling into this is to give safeclaims, of course.

[Zathras]

I dunno, a dead game is a good game from scum perspective.

You still lost, you useless bitch.

But yes, Leafsnail was the one who pointed the problems out to me, rightfully forcing the restart:

Assuming George, Paul and Ringo are named in their role pms, this game is unwinnable for the mafia.

Uhmmm... care to elaborate? I'm an inexperienced mod, so I may have screwed up, but I don't get it... Yes, everyone got a name, but they know they are  townie... you can lie about the name you got, yes?

I can... but there's a problem.

Let's say I claim Ringo, and my partner claims Paul.

There's now a townie who knows for a fact that I'm scum, and a townie who knows for a fact that my partner's scum.  Let's say I'm awesome, and get the real Ringo lynched.  Who does he shoot?

Come to think of it... it is just about possible for the mafia to win (if I get the real Ringo lynched and my partner gets the real Paul lynched).  But town would win 75% of the time through random guessing.  And they have a confirmed townie (George, in this example) to help them get the scum.

Hmmm... I see, but I didn't think people would go all claiming names, rather seeing it as purely WIFOMy speculation regardless of who claims what. I will copy your scumbuddy in this message, and if you guys think it's really unfair I will reroll with names omitted.

Hmm... I'd probably prefer a reroll.

There's a chance that the town will never try to claim the names, but if they do, I think the game becomes quite unfair.

After which I resent the PMs without the names... one more nail in this game's coffin.

As an inexperienced Mod, I chose to host a VM because: a) I liked them, they are tons of fun; and b) I thought it was straightforward enough that I couldn't screw it up... and yet I did. At least twice.

Oh well. Live and learn, as I said; I'll eventually try again.

[NativeForeigner]

Well that's unfortunate, I would've liked to see the end of this game. :/

I guess it's better than letting it die on it's own, nice flavor.

I did my best to post at least once or twice a day when I had time, but I guess that wasn't enough.

[Pandarsenic]

I never felt I had anything to work with and was a bit preoccupied with the last classes of the quarter to take the initiative in being the sole person galvanizing activity.

Also, impending finals whoo.

[Zathras]

Well, the lurkers have spoken, and so have I. Let then this game sink into oblivion, and maybe the next great one will come... one day. Or not. We'll see. Whatever.