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[Ganthan]

In the hopes that Toady might see and consider this, I'm gonna post my ideas here.  While I personally have yet to play a fortress to the point of FPS death from it, I hear all kinds of horror (literally) stories about blood everywhere.

Blood in a given spot should be in a finite amount assuming no more bleeding is going on.   Pools can break down into smears, smears can break down into spatters, etc.  It can be spread out thinner and wider from being tracked around, but it shouldn't ever grow in volume.  If it all gets down to the smallest unit size per tile, that's it.  It stays there until cleaned.

As far as cleaning goes, inside blood cleaning should be fine as long as that first paragraph rule is followed.  It getting smeared around can increase the time it takes but it would never become infinite.  Outdoor blood, in addition to being cleaned by rain, should also simply decay over time like corpses.  Blood is biological and like all biological entities breaks down and decays over time.

[Khift]

Easier solution: Re-enable seasonal cleansing until both the blood bug is fixed and the cleaning system (both personal cleaning and map cleaning) is functional.

In fact, I should probably make a petition thread on that one...

[Hyndis]

Easier solution: Re-enable seasonal cleansing until both the blood bug is fixed and the cleaning system (both personal cleaning and map cleaning) is functional.

This.

IRL blood dries up very quickly. When blood hits air it begins to solidify within seconds. More blood takes longer to solidify of course, but it doesn't remain liquid for very when exposed to air. Blood, being organic, also decays when exposed to air.

The old method of blood and vomit being removed on the turn of each season was a nice balance. It was there long enough to make a mess for a while, but eventually the mess would go away on its own due to natural processes.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Easier easier solution (mostly as a stopgap until actual Toady-made solution comes along): Players: Use dfcleanmap.


That's what I do. I generally ignore new versions until DFHack updates, save for possibly a test world.

[Zaik]

Still need a way to clean blood off of dwarves and items and corpses though. That's probably the worst thing going on atm. Dwarves and their weapons and probably everything else they wear keeps the blood of everything they've ever killed on it unless you hit them with a bunch of water, then immediately use dfcleanmap to get rid of it before everyone else gets it on them. Thinking about coming up with a way to pump some water into my barracks and drain it out without interrupting training and/or accidentally drowning someone. Wouldn't need to be going on all the time, of course, just every few years. Would probably need an infinite source of water though, unless you used dfliquids or something to do it, which doesn't seem unreasonable really.

There's also the matter of corpses and blood(often if killed by your military dwarves, they'll have several different creatures' blood on/in them that was on the weapon), however you can always just atom smash those.

[Hyndis]

Still need a way to clean blood off of dwarves and items and corpses though. That's probably the worst thing going on atm. Dwarves and their weapons and probably everything else they wear keeps the blood of everything they've ever killed on it unless you hit them with a bunch of water, then immediately use dfcleanmap to get rid of it before everyone else gets it on them. Thinking about coming up with a way to pump some water into my barracks and drain it out without interrupting training and/or accidentally drowning someone. Wouldn't need to be going on all the time, of course, just every few years. Would probably need an infinite source of water though, unless you used dfliquids or something to do it, which doesn't seem unreasonable really.

There's also the matter of corpses and blood(often if killed by your military dwarves, they'll have several different creatures' blood on/in them that was on the weapon), however you can always just atom smash those.

Dipping pond on the way to the dining hall or bedrooms, or any place dwarves go often.

Just a down ramp, then an up ramp across the corridor. Fill it with 2/7 water. Bathtime for everyone! Every time a creature walks through the 2/7 water the creature and all items carried by the creature will be cleaned. There will still end up with some blood on the floor, but it will no longer be on the dwarf of the dwarf's weapons.

[gtmattz]

I have been using grates over channels to attempt to maintain tracking of contaminants and so far it seems to work ok?  Maybe it is just my imagination however...

[brucemo]

The blood issue is out of control and detracts from the game now, especially given that very simple things can't be worked around except with these hack utilities.

If a dead cat falls into 7/7 water, it can be a major and possibly unsolvable engineering project to get it and its blood out.

Blood is about as pernicious as plutonium now, and various forgotten beast excretions are worse.

[Tsarwash]

For some reason my current fort seems immune to all this apart from when blood hits water. My dwarves promptly clean up blood or vomit left inside the fort. And out side blood does not seem to get tracked inside. I'm not sure why it works in tihs one. .3.12

[Sphalerite]

The really weird thing is that bones and skull do seem to randomly evaporate over time, even if you keep them underground, but blood never goes away and multiplies over time.  How is it that blood is more durable and lasting than bones?

[Hyndis]

I have been using grates over channels to attempt to maintain tracking of contaminants and so far it seems to work ok?  Maybe it is just my imagination however...

Are the contaminates ever tracked over the grates? Do they fall through the grates onto the channel below?

[ledgekindred]

I'm personally not entirely overwhelmingly in hate with the way blood works right now.  My dwarves inside the fort clean the place up rather nicely before too long.  I have a couple dwarves who I don't bother giving any tasks except clean and they keep the place pretty sparkly.  It also helps that I've smoothed every exposed surface, which encourages them to keep things clean.  Gunk outside eventually gets washed away by rain.  I haven't embarked in no-rain areas, so I expect that could get really annoying and it would probably be a good idea if blood and gunk would decay after a while in those cases. 

But there are two things that really, really need to be fixed:

1) Blood in water never goes away.  Getting anything in water is only a guarantee that it will multiply indefinitely.  If you embark on a frozen location, snow/ice counts as water.   Anywhere you have snow/ice is going to be permanently and forever coated in a thick sludge of anything you've ever killed.  That's just wrong.

2) Pets can never get blood or other contaminants washed off.  I've been using the "dipping pool" method where I have a short trough between my meeting hall & food storage area and the rest of my fort.  Every dwarf has to go through it to get food or booze.  My dwarves are all shiny clean.  They track the crap out of the pool, but like I said, my dwarves generally keep it pretty clean because it's built very near the meeting area.  However I've examined pets on one side, covered in 11 pages of gunk.  They step into the pool and I pause.  While they are in the pool they only have "Water covering" over all their body parts.  When they step out of the pool they are coated in water plus a coating of every single contaminant that is currently sludging around in the pool.  Even if you can somehow clean your washing station of every contaminant currently floating around in it and replacing it with clean water, as soon as a pet steps in, it's full of crap again, ruining all your hard work.

[Zaik]

I'm personally not entirely overwhelmingly in hate with the way blood works right now.  My dwarves inside the fort clean the place up rather nicely before too long.  I have a couple dwarves who I don't bother giving any tasks except clean and they keep the place pretty sparkly.  It also helps that I've smoothed every exposed surface, which encourages them to keep things clean.  Gunk outside eventually gets washed away by rain.  I haven't embarked in no-rain areas, so I expect that could get really annoying and it would probably be a good idea if blood and gunk would decay after a while in those cases. 

But there are two things that really, really need to be fixed:

1) Blood in water never goes away.  Getting anything in water is only a guarantee that it will multiply indefinitely.  If you embark on a frozen location, snow/ice counts as water.   Anywhere you have snow/ice is going to be permanently and forever coated in a thick sludge of anything you've ever killed.  That's just wrong.

2) Pets can never get blood or other contaminants washed off.  I've been using the "dipping pool" method where I have a short trough between my meeting hall & food storage area and the rest of my fort.  Every dwarf has to go through it to get food or booze.  My dwarves are all shiny clean.  They track the crap out of the pool, but like I said, my dwarves generally keep it pretty clean because it's built very near the meeting area.  However I've examined pets on one side, covered in 11 pages of gunk.  They step into the pool and I pause.  While they are in the pool they only have "Water covering" over all their body parts.  When they step out of the pool they are coated in water plus a coating of every single contaminant that is currently sludging around in the pool.  Even if you can somehow clean your washing station of every contaminant currently floating around in it and replacing it with clean water, as soon as a pet steps in, it's full of crap again, ruining all your hard work.

Also worth noting that unless you use dfcleanmap every single time a dwarf walks through the dipping pool with blood on their shoes eventually all your dwarves will end up with that blood on their shoes. I was wondering how they were getting so much blood everywhere while being completely clean, then i realized it's all over their shoes. You can get it off by sitting there and cleaning every time someone with blood on their boots walks through, but it's kinda tedious, and very difficult to keep from introducing new nastiness to it.if there was a way to have it have flow without being 7/7 and connect it to a brook or river it might work, but i have no clue how that would work. I do know that a river or brook sucks all the blood out and away, i've had several underwater stabby deaths recently.