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Author Topic: Dwarven Architecture  (Read 6476 times)

Punished

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Dwarven Architecture
« on: November 06, 2010, 06:56:54 am »

Today I was browsing /tg/ (traditional games on 4chan, for those of you who don't frequent the asshole of the internet) and I came across a Dwarf Fortress thread! A very rare occasion!

In it were of course some lame discussions going on and a picture here and there, among them a picture I found quite interesting.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I really like the design of these bedrooms, I think the whole style of the meeting area/bedrooms/stairs show in the pictures are a very creative use of the game mechanics.

So now I must ask you all to post some architectural design that you think is creative, or just aesthetically pleasing.

:edit: I've noticed that there's no archive of different fort layouts, or different design styles. I understand that designing your fort to reflect how you want it to look is half the fun, but I feel like thats something the wiki could benefit from. So starting now, I think I'm going to start compiling screenshots of different design styles/fort layouts, organize them, and add what I find to the wiki.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 07:14:05 am by Punished »
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Omegastick

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Re: Dwarven Architecture
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2010, 07:15:07 am »

I've always tried my hardest to make my architecture as space efficient as possible whilst still keeping practicality. As such my bedrooms end up looking like this:
Code: [Select]
####..####
#........#
#.8#..#8.#
####..####
....XX....
....XX....
####..####
#.8#..#8.#
#........#
####..####
X = stairs
8 = bed
I then proceed to fill the four spare spaces with whatever the dwarf needs (cabinet, etc.).
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rhinelander

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Re: Dwarven Architecture
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2010, 07:38:45 am »

:edit: I've noticed that there's no archive of different fort layouts, or different design styles. I understand that designing your fort to reflect how you want it to look is half the fun, but I feel like thats something the wiki could benefit from. So starting now, I think I'm going to start compiling screenshots of different design styles/fort layouts, organize them, and add what I find to the wiki.

For bedrooms, there is this page in the wiki. There are also pages about trap and defense layouts. As for the design of the rest of the fortress, there are as much philosphies as there are DF players, but maybe a basic typology could be done.
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Punished

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Re: Dwarven Architecture
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2010, 07:51:37 am »

:edit: I've noticed that there's no archive of different fort layouts, or different design styles. I understand that designing your fort to reflect how you want it to look is half the fun, but I feel like thats something the wiki could benefit from. So starting now, I think I'm going to start compiling screenshots of different design styles/fort layouts, organize them, and add what I find to the wiki.

For bedrooms, there is this page in the wiki. There are also pages about trap and defense layouts. As for the design of the rest of the fortress, there are as much philosphies as there are DF players, but maybe a basic typology could be done.


Wow, I wonder how I never stumbled upon that.
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ThaMuzz

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Re: Dwarven Architecture
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2010, 09:45:49 pm »

Most of those patterns have quickfort blueprints out there.
I'm partial to the fractal designs, personally.
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Duelmaster409

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Re: Dwarven Architecture
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2010, 09:55:58 pm »

I don't go for anything fancy but I like the feel of dwarven cul-de-sacs underground and "suburban" areas with the occasional shop, bathing room, and booze storage.
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darkflagrance

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Re: Dwarven Architecture
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2010, 10:49:12 pm »

There are a bunch of random quotes on architecture that I've gathered from my months of lurking.

Quote
My currently favored method only works if you keep the economy turned off.

I assign a large walled area to each immigrant or founder who gets married, along with their spouse.  The doorway is flanked by two statues, one each in a favorite material of each of the two Dwarves.  Their bed goes in the center or near the back, depending on what is required by the shape of the room in order to cover it all with a room designation.  I have had both rectangular and pie-slice areas.

Thereafter, each of the descendants of the couple gets a bed assigned within that area.  The space assignment for a descendant is usually 3x3, but sometimes 5x5.

Each bed gets a cabinet, and possibly a coffer.  The clan founders always get coffers.  Children sometimes don't get a cabinet until they reach peasant age.

Unmarried Dwarves sleep in the barracks, except for unmarried nobles who of course get private quarters.  The mayor gets a mayorial mansion in addition to a bed in clan quarters, if that is applicable.

This works for me because I limit immigration.  Also, I have not yet successfully gone through to the next generation, or dealt with marriages between clans.  This is because FPS drops too low.  I lack the patience to deal with single-digit FPS, when I could be generating new worlds instead.   :D

A single dining room has so far been my only plan in that arena.  I make blocks of four tables with four chairs, to simulate a cafeteria layout even though Dwarves only interact with one chair, one table, and zero companions while eating.   If I were to institute clan dining areas, I would assign one table to each, with the area being the entire room so that the value would stay as high as possible.

At one point I reproduced the layout of some housing in my own NWN PW.  The houses were two-story, with windows overlooking the underground street from both stories.  I had a four-table/four-chair dining area on the first floor, and two bedrooms above.  The master bedroom had two beds side-by-side, representing a double bed, and the other bedroom had two beds on opposite ends which represented twin beds for the children.  After the glow of accomplishment faded, I realized that it was totally inappropriate for DF Dwarves.  DF Dwarves, at least until the next version, don't recognize a jointly held multi-level/multi-room structure.  Also, DF Dwarves have children numbering in the dozens rather than just a couple.

---------------------------------------------------------------

I once made each dwarf a true and proper house; two wells on the ground floor, huge bedroom, private dining room with booze/food storage. Lower level had a private garden or a workshop [or two for couples] pending on their professions. Upper level was a gigantic office, with green glass windows looking out onto the main streets...

That said, private food piles don't work very well, food seemed to get shuffled around between them, and if a dwarf prefers a single kind of food he'll raid his neighbours if they happen to have it.

The more hallways you have the more the game's pathfinding will branch out to find good routes. My solution was to set the entrance to each house 'Restricted' so the pathfinding wouldn't go there. If a dwarf wanted to go home he could obviously get there. I also put Restricted tags over every staircase when possible, or branch of the streets.

I once made each dwarf a true and proper house; two wells on the ground floor, huge bedroom, private dining room with booze/food storage. Lower level had a private garden or a workshop [or two for couples] pending on their professions. Upper level was a gigantic office, with green glass windows looking out onto the main streets...

That said, private food piles don't work very well, food seemed to get shuffled around between them, and if a dwarf prefers a single kind of food he'll raid his neighbours if they happen to have it.

The more hallways you have the more the game's pathfinding will branch out to find good routes. My solution was to set the entrance to each house 'Restricted' so the pathfinding wouldn't go there. If a dwarf wanted to go home he could obviously get there. I also put Restricted tags over every staircase when possible, or branch of the streets.

---------------------------------------------------------------
I think that once Burrows are in, you'll see more varied housing designs.  Right now, because it's difficult to make dwarves work rationally, efficiency is key.  If all of your hauling jobs are within 100 steps of each other, it doesn't matter that your dwarves will take hauling jobs that are the farthest from where they currently are, despite there being a hauling job in the tile that they're currently standing in.

Fort design reflects this.  The fractal designs, while the they look neat, are also designed to make walk distances uniform.  If the dwarves generally walk the same distances to perform their vital functions, and generally walk the same distances to perform their fortress functions, then they generally take about the same amount of time to do anything - so you can more easily strike the right balance of crafters and haulers.  You won't have times when your 50 haulers are doing nothing because all the jobs were right next to each other (and then you have to break up a party), and you won't have times when you're hauling list is backed up to over 500 tasks because all your haulers decided to haul ore from one corner of your map to the other.

Now, when burrows are implemented, you can assign haulers who's jobs are to specifically keep the craftsdwarves shops clear, and assign haulers who's jobs are to specifically pull ore out of the ground.  I bet you'll start seeing more variety.  The mines across the map will have a miner and a handful of haulers living there - maybe smelters, woodcutters, and woodburners, too.  They'll transform that bulky ore into nice, compact bars, which more dedicated haulers will drag into your fort proper so it can be turned into gaudy, gem-studded buckets or something.  These smaller sub-forts will probably be rebuilt somewhat frequently as mines play out.

============

I just realized I ran off on my own tangent, and didn't actually answer your questions...

How do you make dwarven housing scale to accommodate 200?

That really depends on if you have the economy turned on or not.  If it's on, probably with many large barracks.  If it's off, Multiple layers to reduce walk time.  The 3x1 room isn't glamorous, but it's enough to make dwarves happy (ecstatic, even).   Ideally, the longest travel hallway won't be much longer than the tallest staircases.  A 10x10x10 block holds 1000 tiles, and has a longest walk distance of 30, if your design sucks.  A 30x30 block hold 900 tiles, and has a longest walk distance of 60, if your design sucks.  Stacking is where it's at.  Make something that will accommodate, say, 20 dwarves, and stack it 10 times.  There you go, 200 dwarf accommodations.  Blocky apartments are easy to designate (heck, just make a grid, and use un-designate to chop it into separate rooms, and then re-designate the hallways.  You can make a surprising number of rooms with very little effort or thought this way)

How are children dealt with?

For a little while at least, they live with their parents.  I just make tons of rooms and leave the beds designated as bedrooms, but not assigned.  Dwarves needing a bedroom (or, for some nobles, 3 or 4) will just grab one.  Honestly, I have no idea when children move out, I let the dwarves handle that.  It does make it somewhat annoying to try to find a depressed dwarfs bedroom to try to spruce it up, though.

How many dining rooms/offices should dwarves share?

The reason why you see a lot of massive dining halls with seating for everyone is because that's really the easiest way to ensure everyone's always eating in legendary dining halls - even if it's filled with granite tables and chairs made by a dabbling mason, enough of them add up to legendary.  Depending on fort design, you may decided to make other dining halls (say, for your magma operation, so they don't walk across half the map for a snack).  Just make sure there's enough stuff in there to make it legendary (not difficult for a mature fort with skilled craftsmen and lots of materials to decorate with - just put in a masterpiece aluminum throne studded with every metal and gem you have, and it'll probably end up making the place legendary by itself).

Same for offices really, except that very few dwarves need an office.  Just some of the nobles and the bookkeeper (who's happy with his 'barely above squatting in the mud' quality office).  Making a massive super-office is just another lazy/efficient thing.  With enough bling, even a 5x overlapped office will still be royal for everyone.  Especially if you make it in a gold seam or something - those engraved floors add up, fast.

For aesthetics, I always make my bedrooms 3x3, and they have a bed, a cabinet, a chest, a table, and a chair.  If I notice married dwarves living together (since I rarely even look, this doesn't happen much), I'll add another cabinet and table/chair combo.  I sometimes see dwarves eating in their room, but it does happen.

Personalized food stockpiles?

Too much effort for me.  The main problem is getting the food onto the stockpile in the first place.  Stockpiles can only have one stockpile taking from it, and your main food stockpile is going to get all the food - because if it's not the closest thing to your food source, you're wasting a whole lot of hauling time.  Add these two things together, and you realize it's very, very difficult to ensure everyone's personalized food stockpiles are actually stocked.

Keep in mind that it is possible, if you make individual 'base' stockpiles for each kind of food near your production, then use long, long chains of 'take from' you can eventually get everyone's personalized food stockpiles (in actuality, 4 or 5 one or two tile stockpiles that can only hold one type of food/drink) more or less stocked constantly, but at the cost of an absurd number of hauling jobs.

Burrows may help with this, since you could (with great effort) sort your dwarves by preferred foods and just direct all of that kind of food to that burrow).

Overall floorpplan?

This one is tricky - and highly individual. For me, since it often varies based on what resources are around.  Industry tends to center around magma (if available), and food production tends to center around soil (so I don't have to mess with irrigation).  Depending on map layout, housing is either to the side, or between those two major economic zones.  I generally tend to go with the "major hallway" approach - a 4 or 5 tile wide hallway that spans the length and breadth of my fort.  For some reason I prefer ramps to stairs, which makes my overall designs somewhat corkscrew-like.  As I stated earlier, building in layers are great.  My industry is usually a massive storeroom with non-fueled workshops above, and fueled workshops below.  I use two 3x4 workshop rooms linked by a short hallway with doors for each workshop and an up/down stair between the doors.  The extra space between the doors and the workshop proper is for cage traps, to be build if a moody dwarf claims the workshop - insanity is safely contained before they can hurt anyone else.  The extra space in the shop itself is for small and specialized stockpiles for whatever materials the dwarf uses.  Not so useful for craftsdwarfs (they go through a ton or rock/bone), but great for jewelers, because even a 3x1 stockpile can hold a ton of gems.

Basically:
Code: [Select]
+----+   +----+
|....+---+....|
|.....DXD.....|
|....+---+....|
+----+   +----+

I like this design because it's very, very stackable and repeatable.
---------------------------------------------------------------

At work, but I like the economy off (all sorts of problems otherwise).

I also like the idea of using traffic designations to help FPS along.

As for housing arrangements, I do prefer each dwarf having their own room at least. I dunno, I've just always been like that. It seems somehow wrong to deny them any privacy at all. I suppose I could understand having a room mate, but not much more.

On the whole, I tend to make overly elaborate housing blocks for my dwaves with entire city layouts of 4 wide tunnels as "Streets." I might stop doing this, or at least severely limit it in the interest of FPS and simple decoration. Flat street planning doesn't seem too Dwarven to me and it wastes the 3rd dimension (at least partially).

*Thinks of creative uses for plazas and hallways.... in 3d. Also of possible integration of work and living space....* (yes I know, noise).

---------------------------------------------------------------
I have a few living spaces:

- The barracks: self explanatory.

- Workshop housing: This is mostly for the cooks and brewers, but I try to add a living space or two in some craft areas just to switch things up a little.

- The slums: The usual rows of 1x2 bedrooms with 1-wide access hallways.  These are always on one z-level.  Though I'll stack them if I need to, they're never interconnected.  I never design spaces symmetrically, but these come the closest since they're so simple.  Almost always as high up as possible in the fort, whether above ground or below.  Luckily, I don't need many of them.

- The dwarf tenement: A multiple z-level structure with a single 2-wide hallway bisecting each floor and bedrooms on either side.  There's access into the structure on only one z-level, and an up/down staircase on one end of the hall to access each floor.  The bedrooms range from 1x2 to 3x3.  Aesthetically natural; practically boring.

- The dwarf apartments: Again, multiple z-levels, but probably only 2 or 3.  All units are about 30+ tiles large, split into a bedroom and dining room.  I'll usually order them so that the units are built next to each other, but I always vary the layouts so it's never uniform.  Some units won't separate the dining room from the bedroom.  Some have balconies overlooking open spaces.  Units are accessed by 3-wide hallways, and upper hallways are exposed to the lower hallways down the center.

- The dwarf row houses: 2 or 3 level buildings with the works.  Bedrooms, dining room (with all the swanky metal furniture), office, closets, hallways, stairwells, balconies, picture windows, decorative items.

- The dwarf mansion: I'm still working on it, but it will probably need room for servants, separate sleeping quarters for multiple family members, and a special amphitheater to watch private gladiator matches.  I'd probably only make one or two of these: one for the King, and one for my favorite Champion (and there's always a favorite, right?).  Maybe a third to lock up a captured goblin, if I'm feeling exceptionally ironic.
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I have a similar idea: To make a grand hall as my entrance, and truly make it grand!

I am making it somewhat in the style of moria, with pillars going from the great hall floor to the ceiling. Inside of some of these pillars, I will have tunnels leading up to the ceiling, where I will be keeping my barracks. The pillars leading to my barracks will also serve as battlements for my marksdwarves, being fortified from top to bottom, in case I have to shoot some flying creatures.

I'm not going to engrave it, as that would take too much work and imo look ugly. I will however smooth out the entire thing. I'm going to be working from the top-down, digging out one level and smoothing all of the pillars and walls, then channelling out to the level below it, leaving a single ramp left to be channelled out when the entire thing has reached the ground level.

I expect the entire thing to be about 8 z-levels high. The bottom of the hall is just precisely at the level of the roof of my highest cavern layer, so I'll be forced to build a few floors to get it just right.

I'm also leaning most to the side of absolutely pristine great hall. This is where I'll be impressing my fellow dwarves and sending goblins, elves and humans back to the pits where they all belong.

My biggest hurdle right now is designing the entrances. On one hand, I don't want fliers to be able to glide through my great hall uncontested by my melee forces. On the other hand, having the entrances being a measly 1 z level tall is very unimpressive.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Reading the subject, I thought this was going to be like a gallery showing/explaining the types of fortress shapes that tend to be made.

Like for example (and it would come with picture examples or references from other forts):


Above Ground:
Keep-- Keeping true to classic medieval form, it usually consists of towers and walls in which the people can reside in. The larger towers usually hold nobility, whereas the smaller surrounding towers house military and defenses. The only way in or out is through a front gate with a drawbridge and a moat for further protection

Town-- Just as the name says. Your run-of-the-mill settlement out in the sun. Usually consists of a mead hall, an apartment complex, and some storehouses, along with possibly a market district.

City/Metropolis-- A larger version of the Town. Usually features a skyline of sorts. Usually yields a higher volume of citizens.

Babel (AKA- Tower Fortresses)-- these are generally either massive, or colossal structures that can touch the skies, and then some. You'd think the designer is compensating for something. However, these are more common as a community effort.

Factory-- Make a self-sufficient factory/power station building.

Pyramid/Ziggurat/Dome-- As the name implies; any structure (or a number of structures) that takes the form of the named.


Underground:
Shaft-- These are your common forts that extend from a central column outward and is generally taking advantage of the ease of access. Depending on how the central shaft is designed, it could either be easy to climb, but also easy to die if not careful (nothing but up/downs, or slower to climb, but safer to traverse, with either stepped airways or a corkscrew ramp.

Vault-- Consisting of shafts either formed diagonally or vertically, it usually consists of a series of wide pathways that branch off into smaller pathways leading into bunkers designed for specific purposes. These tend to be the safest in fort designs, provided the flow of traffic and assignment of the bunkers are optimized for quick service. And underground water supply is a must in order to keep these working at their full potential. (SEE: New Wavehandle)

Geofront-- A vast cavern in which settlements are constructed within to house an entire city. (SEE: Undergrotto)

Quarry-Town-- If your main export is stone, or stone products, then you have no need to worry about housing. That literal hole in the ground is your home. Well, there are little holes on all different floors with different purposes of course. Generally carved out in a spiral formation for the main path. Either looks like a crater, rectangular void, or an inverse-drill. Seldom is there a building or structure in the center. Radar dishes or antennae can qualify it as a potential hybrid if sufficiently tall enough.

Ixian/Tleilaxu-- Inspired by Dune; build within caverns, stalagmite and stalactite structures, adapted to house civilian life. Cave adaptation is guaranteed.


Aquatic/Island/Oceanside:
Pier-- As you would imagine, a functional fortress built atop a pier.

Sandcastle-- Think Keep, except on the beach... with sandstone. :P

Oceanspire-- Tower, except coming out of the water.

Oil Rig-- A floating structure built atop the water, usually made for drilling into the ocean floor for valuables. Disaters will definitely spell F-U-N for somebody; be it ocean life, or [race]'s life; or a major faction that owns them.

Canal Fort-- A fortress adapted into a canal. Made to manipulate to [race]'s will.

Lost Isle-- A mysterious island with all sorts of oddities throughout with a steady supply of migrants somehow. A megabeast lives here I think.

Sewer-- Qualifies as aquatic due to the fact that usually in fantasy settings, they tend to get unusually large, and have water as a central theme. Usually associated with underground fortresses or beneath most AG forts.

Venetian-- A city/town atop the water. Make sure it's elegant.

Delta Port-- Any of the mentioned built along a delta (if such a map feature can be found; otherwise, they can be manufactured).

Archipelago-- Similar to Delta Port, except with an archipelago.

Sunken City/Atlantis-- If you know Atlantis, you know what to make. Essentially, it's a functional city under water, or built beneath the waves (IE- underground below the water. Have fun with that aquifer.).


Hybrid:
Standard Combo-- Any combination of the A/U/Q mentioned above combined to function together. Sometimes result as a megalopolis if done right.

Cliff-town-- As the name states, these are usually settlements built in/on cliff faces. Examples are few, but these tend to provide some fun in either design or destruction. Access can be from keeps above or below, or a crack in the cliff where a meandering path reaches an external access point to the town. Beware of rigged bridges if this is the case; otherwise *splat*.

Vines-- Fortresses built like a vine scaling a building. Derived from cliff-towns, they are more like cities built into the cliff, than extending from it; but they usually have a direct route from the base to the top in a single path. Best applied to sheer cliff faces.

Key-tower-- Essentially built as a tower atop a shaft, except a flimsy foundation separates the tower above from the shaft below. Fun times are to be had with this design. Name's as such due to how the tower fits the slot seamlessly like the right key to the right lock. Alternatively, there's a small town in a void that is inversely (as a cavity) exactly shaped like the tower above it. Optionally, there can be protrusions along the top-most portion so Armok can "turn the key". The tower can also have notches to move the tumblers (in this case dwarves).

Hopi-- Cliff-perched homes. How you build them is up to you. Usually made of stone.


Mega-Project:
Shipyard (mega-vehicle)-- Design purpose is usually for a means to build ships for various purposes, be it airship, boat, Titan, landcrawler, or magmaworm. Airships have been attempted, but one has truly succeeded to soar (still moored at site); boats were once a common endeavor with few successes, one is still sailing, though it's fate is unknown; Titans are usually built in a humanoid form, and designed with utility and housing in mind. Considering the scale of effort, and structural stability, these are usually immobile behemoths (SEE: Apex the Immortal); Landcrawlers (AKA-tanks or fortress vehicles) are unknown of at the time, and none have been known to roam the lands; Magmaworms (magma subs), often cast as obsidian vehicles, have been tried, but are commonly ending with disaster. A solution to the matter is still to be found.

Megalopolis-- Monstrous cities built to ridiculous proportions and entirely functional, each with a special purpose in mind. Usually comes with massive temples, production facilities, stadiums... the works. (SEE: Flarechannel, Undergrotto)

Machina-- A fortress which has a primary operation as a computer device of some sort. Designs vary from calculators to data storage, or full-blown computers. Probably the rarest to exist due to the sheer complexity of the construction.

Impossible Architecture-- [insert description here if you can find one], simply: self-explanatory. Quantum fortresses is an example, I guess (Anything that can house an entire fortress in less than 3x3 space.). Adamantine Space Elevator (Or adamintine spire) is a naturally occurring impossibility.

Inverse-scape-- Simply described as a cavern where land once was, and land where sky once was. As if somebody took the time to mine out the floor, only to rebuild it upside-down above it's void.

Hyper-Functional Structure-- Generally a massive structure that not only serves a purpose, but also serves as a fortress that houses an entire fortress. Examples range from dams to bridges to defense networks.

This Looks Familiar...-- A true-to-form replication of known places; fact or fiction. Not always built to scale, but impressive nonetheless.

Floating Isle/Castle-- Literally a floating chunk of habitable land, adapted to house a town/city atop/within it. Have fun keeping it stocked somehow.
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The yawning hole gaped before the caravan, its ramp leading into pitch blackness. Within an hour, the human traders had rearranged and repacked the wagon loads so that the vehicles could fit into the narrow opening. The point guard hoisted a low-smoke torch overhead and timidly entered the hole. With a lurch, the first wagon started forward, horses nickering nervously.

The air inside the tunnel was thick, humid, and stifling. Wagons scraped against the rough stone walls, dislodging occasional pebbles and sounding deafening echoes down the passage. The uneven ground sloped downwards, then leveled, then sloped again. The guard signaled the caravan to halt, then raised the torch to examine a section of the wall. Rounded holes were carved into the wall, revealing deserted rooms behind the stone. The caravan followed the path for over three hours, passing abandoned dwellings, empty workshops, and silent graveyards. Scores of mounds lined the narrow road, graves for the commonfolk. Elaborately carved stone doors blocked entrance to the tombs of great warriors and leaders. The entire time, not a person spoke. The only sound was the steady clip-clop of horse hooves and the creak of wagon wheels.

After what seemed a lifetime and a half, the caravan entered an expansive cavern. The stone road morphed into a bridge, cutting across the expansive space. Dwarves worked hunched in muddy fungus farms below the bridge. Shanties made of dried tower-cap trunks formed a slum in the center of the cavern. A narrow ramp snaked up the walls of the cavern on the side opposite the wagons, leading into the blackness. Ovals of light dotted the walls of the cavern, marking where the wealthy nobles lived in ignorance of the plight of peons laboring far below, the peons who wordlessly supported the sloth of the nobles.

Another ten minutes, and the wagons reached the far end of the bridge. A caravan driver gestured to the path and muttered to his companion, "They expect us to take the wagons up that thing?" The other man shook his head, jumped from the wagon, and shouldered a heavy box. Shuffling up the stone ramp, he signaled for the driver to follow suit.
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So I've recently become rather obsessed with this new idea for a fortress.

I've never had any desire for above-ground constructions; none of them feel particularly "dwarfy", and I'm kind of repelled by the idea of drastically altering the appearance of the landscape. That said, I'm sick of the standard anthill tunnel system that most fortresses incorporate.

What I want to do is dig out an enormous hollow cavern underground, leaving behind huge stalagtites and stalagmites, inside of which I will build rooms for my industry and stockpiles. All of my farming and tower cap orchards will be placed on the "ground level" of the cavern, simulating gardens and arboretums in a real-life metropolis.

Ideally I'll plan it right so that there are no constructions; although I want to leave the outside of these stalagtite/mite towers rough, ideally everything will be smoothed and engraved on the interiors.

My goal is essentially to create a unique, delightfully asymmetric community with a very organic, lived-in feel, with a Hayao Miyazaki design aesthetic.
When it's complete I will take screenshots with 3dwarf and then do some swell (I hope) digital paintovers which I will post.

Obviously, I will be placing a strong emphasis on the aesthetics of the fort, rather than on efficiency or productivity. That said, I wanted to ask all of you for advice and input as to how I should organize my community. Should there be one stalagtite for each kind of industry? What's the ideal location for the main dining hall? Are there any neat features or interesting mega-constructions that I could add in to make it cooler?

I've come up with a few of my own, beyond what I've already described, but I'll wait to hear from you guys before I talk about them.

Also, I'd like to know if you guys think I should embark on this now, or wait until the next update. There's a LOT of earth to mine out, so it's going to take awhile.

---

I'm thinking that the trade Depot will actually be on the ground level (when I refer to the ground level, I mean the bottom of the cavern, probably somewhere around +3 from the bottom of the map). I want visitors to the fort to appreciate the grandure of the design. The entrance to the fort will be a large 5-tile ramp that traverses back and forth all the way from the entrance at the surface. The whole thing will be open, so that as they make the trip down to the Depot they can look out and see the entire town spread out below them.
I suppose I'll have to have some alternate meat-grinder type entrance for invaders somewhere else.

As for walking, I will certainly take your suggestion and have tunnels in the top layers. Rather than basment tunnels, however, the ground floor will be filled with walkways (pretty towercap-lined ones), with doors at the base of each stalagmite. Additionally, I probably will build some elevated walkways connecting each stalag structure somewhere in the mid-z levels. These will be constructions, not carved, in order to go along with the whole "found cavern" feel.

Some other ideas I have:
Perhaps the entrance to the cavern will be inaccessible except for crossing over a drawbridge spanning the surface-exposed magma pipe. If I do this then the caravan route I describe earlier will circle around the pipe on its way down to the bottom floor, like a giant spiral staircase.

Otherwise I might just use scaffolding to smooth and engrave the pipe, or dare some kind of magmafall.

One or more of the stalagmites will be dedicated to metalworking, and the channels that feed magma to them will be exposed to passersby on the ground floor, with steel bridges built over them. Magma monsters don't respawn, right?

I've decided that the main dining hall will be located one level below the ground floor. The entrance will be a lavish gazebo type thing, probably in the town center, on the ground floor with stairs leading down. Statues and mist generators in there for sure.
The dining hall itself will ideally have clear glass walls, with the magma canals visible through one side and the water canals visible through the other.

I think I'll build the dining hall "restaurant-style", rather than "cafeteria style". Booths, private rooms, and clumps of four tables spread around. Conventional wisdom states that dwarves need a mile-long table, but they never seem to throw banquets, do they? I think I've been misreading them; I think they want intimate seating.

Catacombs and burial grounds in a labyrinth in the bottommost levels.

What should I do with the HFS chamber?

Hang on, I saw some people posted while I was writing this, I'll respond in the next post.

---

Name it Shinineth Istam, "Bright City of Lights."
Just pretend there are lights.
Also, have some columns (natural formation, not built).
And carve windows into the place.
Make it awesome.
You need to use a lot of z-levels for the main cavern.
Good luck with the channeling and stuff.

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if i was gonna do this, i would use stone road all along the bottom pathway, and have the rest of the area be flooded for towercaps and make use of small walls/traffic designations to keep the dwarfs from walking on the plants. also would fill the area with artificial waterfalls and rivers of water and magma. possibly even might make the rivers 'divide' the cavern into different areas, one for most of the housing, one for industry, ect. probably make the magma river wrap around the industry area and have small "forks" from it to feed the forges

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There's nothing wrong with starting rectangular, andrea.  It's hard to concentrate on making artistic construction when one has to stop every few months and deal with caravans, ambushers, seiges, and migrants.  Something I realized after reading a lot of forum threads is that some of the people building mega-projects have turned off invasions, severely limited migrants, and possibly turned off the weather, so that they have time to get the layout started well before taking on the rest of the game.  There is nothing wrong with what they have done, but we should not berate ourselves for making great creations more slowly while dealing with all the distractions from the very beginning and ending up with 200+ Dwarves with 16 FPS.

My own fortress entrances tended to start as burrows into the sidehill, and then evolved into square courtyards on flat ground.  Now I am considering combining the two into something more like a Dwarven mountain fortress.

My underground layout started as snaky 1-tile-wide tunnels with rooms where-ever they fit, and then evolved into strictly regulated orderly grids of wider tunnels and 11x11 rooms (subdivided into 5x5 for bedroom areas and combined for larger areas such as the dining room).  Recently I have loosened my grip on the layout and started allowing my plans to adapt to the terrain instead of forcing a square grid on everything.  One thing that changed dramatically was my sleeping areas.  Since Dwarves don't care about privacy and the walls/doors don't reduce noise, I have been giving the commoners 5x5 bedrooms in larger open areas.  The only reason for walls is to hold engravings, and they don't need those in their bedrooms.  They have the Royal Dining Room to supply that.  In return, they now all get cabinets because I don't have to make all those doors.

My fortresses that are still using the square courtyard entrance design have been learning to make pyramids overhead.  I have also begun making circular sunken statue gardens for outdoor meeting areas, with designs in the tiled floors.  For instance, Firechannels, founded by The Tufted Cats, has a floor design of the head of a cat with tufted ears.  These are proceeding quite slowly because of all the other distractions.  Firechannels has the pyramid only half done and the meeting area about 80% tiled, and the king has already arrived.  There is a nice obsidian-block road and a soap-paved brookfront, though.  I like to think of the Dwarves going out to bathe in the brook, pre-soaped by their walk to the water.   :D
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rephikul

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Re: Dwarven Architecture
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2010, 04:03:02 pm »

I'm going to ruin your nice tl;dr thread by pointing out that most dwarves only need a bed to remain happy and they wont care about the extra tibits you provide to them. Below is a horrible image of my sleeping quarter to push the point across.
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