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Author Topic: The prediction of the game industry-Let's talk about blu ray and copy machines.  (Read 7540 times)

fenrif

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Re: The prediction of the game industry.
« Reply #135 on: July 06, 2010, 12:06:39 pm »

Anyone who self-identifies as "hardcore" anything is a tool. :P

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lumin

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Re: The prediction of the game industry.
« Reply #136 on: July 06, 2010, 12:12:05 pm »

Casual = Games that take a long time to learn (no learning curve)
Hardcore = Anything that takes more than a few days to learn to play competently.
Competitive ones are the most hardcore, because you spend days trying to get at the level of skill that others are.


I'd put Guitar Hero up as a hardcore game. And Farmville is clearly casual, even if you spend 20 hours a day on it. Halo is hardcore if you're playing multiplayer. MMORPGs are somewhere in between, unless you actually have to learn about game mechanics instead of pressing the same button all day.

So you define it differently than Ioric...interesting.  So this only helps prove my point at how vague this term really is.  Let's break this down with examples then:

You define a hardcore game as any game that takes more than a few days to learn to play competently.  I would definitely put Tamagotchi in that category then since it takes at least a week to even understand if you're doing the right things to get your pet to survive.  Electronic board games and card games would certainly fit here as well.  I've been playing chess for years and still feel incompetent when playing against certain people.

Alternatively I could also say that Morrowind is a casual game because it only takes me about 5 minutes to get through the tutorial which gives me everything I need to know to be competent in the game mechanics: Left-click attacks, right-click brings up my equipment, space bar interacts with objects - easy sauce.

So would you say if Bejeweled or Tetris was a multiplayer game, it would be hardcore, but not so if it remained single player?  What about scores?  That is not a multiplayer component, but yet can still be used to compete with others.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 12:16:05 pm by lumin »
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Mfbrew

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Re: The prediction of the game industry.
« Reply #137 on: July 06, 2010, 12:20:53 pm »

Hardcore games = games designed for sweaty teenage males who use words like "phat lewt" and "pwning noobs", who adopt the latest technologies and have strong preferences and demands

casual games = games that don't require a big investment in or familiarity with "gamer culture", where the market is more varied and may not have the latest hardware

also to put a rest to the Blu Ray fanboys/haters:

-blue Ray can't be ignored as a widespread format, and it dominates this generation of storage medium.  However, it's not going to be a DVD-killer since it offers little real difference from DVDs, and it's likely to be outclassed by downloadable content or even better discs before it can replace DVDs.

In contrast, DVDs were a VHS-killer because they were so much smaller (physically) and more versatile.  VHS tapes were the size of a freaking small dog and the picture was grainy as hell,  while you could see a better quality DVD on a disc the size of a drink coaster.  Plus if you bought a 50 pack of blank DVDs, you could put anything on there.

Blu Ray is better for HD content than DVDs, yeah, but downloadable/streaming content is way more popular.  Why go rent a blu Ray disc at te store when you can rent&stream a HD movie without getting up off your couch?   same goes for buying where available.  Plus a lot of people saw their VHS made obsolete by DVD, so they're not gonna waste money building a blu Ray collection when the next tech is right around the corner.

Tldr blu Ray is better, but it's not enough of an increment and it's competing against more popular alternate formats like downloadable content.  It will likely be replaced by the next big thing before it can put the nail in the coffin of DVDs.
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x2yzh9

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Re: The prediction of the game industry.
« Reply #138 on: July 06, 2010, 02:13:48 pm »

I approve of this derail.

ibot66

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I have a spare set of rails... anyone?
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G-Flex

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Re: The prediction of the game industry.
« Reply #140 on: July 06, 2010, 03:05:43 pm »

Blu Ray is better for HD content than DVDs, yeah, but downloadable/streaming content is way more popular.  Why go rent a blu Ray disc at te store when you can rent&stream a HD movie without getting up off your couch?   same goes for buying where available.  Plus a lot of people saw their VHS made obsolete by DVD, so they're not gonna waste money building a blu Ray collection when the next tech is right around the corner.

I think this is really the only particularly good point against Blu-Ray here in this thread. On the other hand, I don't think the market for physical media is going to go anyway anytime soon. Consider this: A blu-ray disk holds 25-50GB (or something like that) of data. I don't know if I see people downloading that much. I can see them streaming stuff, using an On-Demand pay-per-view service, and things like that, but not so much for actually purchasing to own.
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optimumtact

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Re: The prediction of the game industry.
« Reply #141 on: July 06, 2010, 06:48:26 pm »

Casual = Games that take a long time to learn (no learning curve)
Hardcore = Anything that takes more than a few days to learn to play competently.
Competitive ones are the most hardcore, because you spend days trying to get at the level of skill that others are.


I'd put Guitar Hero up as a hardcore game. And Farmville is clearly casual, even if you spend 20 hours a day on it. Halo is hardcore if you're playing multiplayer. MMORPGs are somewhere in between, unless you actually have to learn about game mechanics instead of pressing the same button all day.
Godlike=Dwarf Fortress
Hardcore=Operation Flashpoint Cold war Crisis and its spiritual successors ArmA & ArmA2
Casual=Everything else

Edit: added a new category.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 07:08:15 pm by optimumtact »
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Virex

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Re: The prediction of the game industry.
« Reply #142 on: July 06, 2010, 06:59:45 pm »

Hardcore games = games designed for sweaty teenage males who use words like "phat lewt" and "pwning noobs", who adopt the latest technologies and have strong preferences and demands
Where would Aurora, Dwarf Fortress and HoI3 fit then?
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Grendus

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With how derailed this thread is, I'd almost recommend locking it except it's so damn entertaining to watch. Popcorn anyone?
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Muz

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Re: The prediction of the game industry.
« Reply #144 on: July 07, 2010, 06:29:00 pm »

You define a hardcore game as any game that takes more than a few days to learn to play competently.  I would definitely put Tamagotchi in that category then since it takes at least a week to even understand if you're doing the right things to get your pet to survive.  Electronic board games and card games would certainly fit here as well.  I've been playing chess for years and still feel incompetent when playing against certain people.

Alternatively I could also say that Morrowind is a casual game because it only takes me about 5 minutes to get through the tutorial which gives me everything I need to know to be competent in the game mechanics: Left-click attacks, right-click brings up my equipment, space bar interacts with objects - easy sauce.

So would you say if Bejeweled or Tetris was a multiplayer game, it would be hardcore, but not so if it remained single player?  What about scores?  That is not a multiplayer component, but yet can still be used to compete with others.

Heh, it's an odd thing. I think it's a combination of mastery curve and learning curve.. games that take both a long time to learn and a long time to master are the most hardcore. Games that have a very small mastery curve and very small learning curve are casual.

Tamagotchi, Pokemon is a bit of a niche. I wouldn't call them casual, and I certainly won't call chess casual. Chess is as hardcore as it gets. Card games are casual by my definition, poker would be easy to get and plenty of people learn it fast, even though it takes effort to master.

Warcraft and Starcraft, even with the fanatics are not really hardcore, and neither are sports games. But a sports game that takes days to figure out like Football Manager would be hardcore.

Bejeweled and Tetris, even when competitive don't count as hardcore, because they take no time to learn. Yeah, maybe not Guitar Hero or Left 4 Dead either. Scores only matter if people cared... like if people actually spent several dollars trying to beat high score Tetris at an arcade, it's no longer casual.

Morrowind and Fallout 3 is a little exception. I wouldn't call them casual because the character creation and tutorial takes half an hour to soak in. It's not hardcore because it takes no time to master. What makes it non-casual is most probably that you need hardware expensive enough for a hardcore gamer, but not if you're playing it on a console.

I still wonder where DF lies on it. That would make all of us.. hardcore gamers.


Heh, anyway, it's not so much a derail. Games are headed one way or another. I once thought that people would move up from casual games to more hardcore, but I'm not so sure. I know that DF would never be a good first game. I did pick up X-Com when I was 12 and failed bad at it. My dad plays Age of Empires using only cheats because it's too tough for him, but he could play Superpower 2 and Simcity 4 (on hard) comfortably because of his MBA.

I think some people are deluding in thinking that people want all those casual games. Well, my girlfriend is a non-gamer and she has absolutely no interest in Bejeweled because it's boring. She does play The Sims because she likes it and wants to learn DoTA, but can't. My sister is definitely a hardcore powergamer, she finds flaws in The Sims' game mechanic and uses it to build filthy rich Sims who are maxed out in every skill. Then she plays again with tougher traits. She plays the Sims too, but for different reasons.

I'm not even sure what I'm saying here. It's just that casual games aren't the magic product non-gaming investors think they are. If this was the food industry, casual games are like snacks, or fast food at best. The only worrying thing is if a restaurant owner decides to sell them too because they're the new trend.
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HideousBeing

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I think it's more that they only just recently realized that casual game have a large market. There have always been lots of people who like casual games and you saw stuff like roller coaster tycoon and mario party, but I think flash games and the wii really showed business guys that it's a big market with a low barrier to entry.
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