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[SeveQ]

Hi there,

I've been reading many complaints about dwarves dying of thirst and starvation lately. Hence I'd like to make a suggestion. Why not make DF a little more realistic? Has anybody ever seen someone continuing to do his job until he dies of thirst or starvation? I haven't. And I guess I'll never do. Because hunger and thirst can become really strong motivations to search for something to eat or drink. If there is nothing especially designated for consumption left I personally would start to drink my own wee if it's all about surviving. This instinct can grow much stronger than even a withdrawal syndrome of a junkie. A dwarf should start doing anything he can to survive when hunger and thirst become unbearable. Perhaps even kill and eat other dwarves as the very last resort. He should grab a weapon and go hunting if necessary. He should nibble off the tree bark to just get something into his stomach. As long as he is able to move, surviving, not completing his job should be his topmost priority.

I've got a strong feeling that dwarves don't put enough effort into surviving hunger and thirst. You know what I mean? I mean survival is the foundation of our existence. And the volition to survive can become the strongest of all powers. Just my two cents...

Hendrik

[Fourdots]

The whole thing with dwarfs continuing jobs (and starting new ones) even when they were hungry and thirsty was a bug. It's fixed:

(*)made workers stop taking new jobs if they can and want to eat/drink/sleep instead
(*)made certain jobs like updating records and partying quittable at any time due to hunger/thirst/drowsiness

[SeveQ]

Okay, looks like... but it's still... I mean, they still die of thirst even if there is for example snow lying around that could be eaten or trees with tasty leaves to eat when a dwarf is very hungry. That's what I meant. They should do anything to survive starvation and thirst. Perhaps even consider murder and cannibalism... They live in a colony far off the civilization. Who cares of moral if he's otherwise inevitably about to die?

[Fourdots]

Hmm, fair enough. Melting snow into water makes sense - as would treating liquid water in puddles (which a stone of ice melts into) as water instead of merely a contaminant (could be expanded to general liquids; dwarfs could then try to drink blood, mud, or whatever else was on the ground with the proper tags); living off trees and grass could be an alternative to hunting for vermin (which dwarfs currently do if they're starving). Murder/cannibalism also makes sense, especially if tied to relationships (dwarfs would be more willing to eat someone they disliked or didn't know, if they're starving, while they would wait longer to eat a friend or simply starve to death if presented with a lover). Religion could also be tied in, and dwarfs who had to resort to cannibalism once would be much more willing to do so later (or as a fortress-wide thing; once it happens a few times, it's a lot easier to make it happen again).

The downside (upside?) is that, inevitably, someone would try to make a fortress which survives entirely off eating immigrant waves - a bunch of starving dwarfs inside, and a room filled with weapon traps and a designated meating area (typo intended). It wouldn't be a pleasant life, unless whoever was running the fort figured out how to make the dwarfs cook the corpses (mmm, +dwarf meat roasts+), but it would work.

[Sfon]

Adding something like "Melt Ice/Snow" to the kiln would be nice, with the result stored in buckets/barrels. Perhaps with a harvesting area implemented so you can set where they get it from. Magma/coal would become more important for cold biomes.

[SeveQ]

@Fourdots: you made my day!

@topic: we should think about what we would do if we were very hungry/thirsty dwarves. I guess if I were a really tough dwarf starving because of a lack of (semi-)prepared food I'd take matters into my own hands and fucking get me something to eat before I die. I'd walk out into the wilderness and kill the next damn critter being unlucky enough to run into me just to silence those god damn collywobbles! And nobody would ever be able to stop me. A question of priorities. THERE MUST BE SOMETHING TO EAT/DRINK SOMEWHERE and I WILL find it!

One thing on the other hand would never come to my mind in such a situation: walking around somewhat chaotically, waiting for The Death to finally fetch me.

Again: highest priority for dwarves raising up a new colony must be survival. Eating/drinking everything (even usually brackish things) in reach if necessary means just that.

Well, I suppose you've got my point now

[Toybasher]

I dont think you need to "melt snow" How about eating snow fixes both starvation and thirst at the same time?

[Niveras]

I don't think solid water would do much for your hunger. Especially since it is going to melt completely before it gets too far down your throat. Also if you're lost out in the wilderness, eating snow isn't advisable because the amount of energy expended melting it and bringing it up to your body temperature costs you more than maintaining your normal core temperature to begin with, though this may not be a huge concern if you're living out of a whole in the ground that offers shelter, heat, food, etc.

However, I do like the idea of using smelters/kilns and buckets to melt snow. Even "eating" unmelted snow to deal with thirst, but in that case there could be contaminants in the snow that cause infections or disease.

[Pilsu]

You don't really need to build a fire just to melt ice underground. It happens on it's own if you haul it a bit deeper.