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Author Topic: military rotation has extremely negative consequences.  (Read 10447 times)

Makbeth

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Re: military rotation has extremely negative consequences.
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2010, 03:18:46 am »

Dunno about you, but I only seem to get strong negative thoughts for peasants that go off duty.  If they're trained up in any other skills, enough that they have a title, they don't mind so much going back to their civvies.  This is why I never draft peasants into my military before training them up in something else first.

That makes the problem a little better, but it's like everytime their schedule changes, nobody informs them that the leave is temporary, and that every month, they are suddenly fired from their jobs. Or, "Mannn, I'm so dissapointed with being drafted, just like I have been every month for the last three years..." Fictionally, it's nonsense. Functionally, it's a bit dangerous because your that much closer to a spiral. Goblins can't do anything to a fort like a couple of tatrumming axe lords.

Another bad thought that I think is a bit extreme is the hatred for patrols. I'm asking four guys out of ten to be stationed at the front gate, so that most of them are doing whatever they want at any given time, and the first year they grumble about it, and eventually they are 'enraged' by it. Somebody needs to watch the front gate or we all die guys! What's it gonna be? If we're going to need 9 dwarves off for every dwarf on duty, were gonna need way bigger squads than 10 soldiers if we are going to fight off ambushes and seiges. Several times a year, everyone has to be on duty because there's 20 goblins pouring into the front entrance, is it really too much to be ready for them? Do we wait until they are in the fort before we sound the alarm so you geniouses can fumble around in the equipment stockpile while everyone in the dining hall is slain?

Yes we have a security problem. Deal with it!

Thank you!  You expressed my feelings on the matter so much better than I did.
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TomiTapio

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Re: military rotation has extremely negative consequences.
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2010, 12:13:27 pm »

Somebody needs to watch the front gate or we all die guys!

20 goblins pouring into the front entrance, is it really too much to be ready for them? Do we wait until they are in the fort before we sound the alarm

Try chaining some animals to detect the hostiles at your outdoor walls' chokepoints. You do have chokepoints with traps, right?
Set game to pause when a pet or a citizen dies. Do you have TrapAvoid gobs or vanilla gobs.
A training barracks at the front gate, while training they are so very ready for some fighting. They might even interrupt training to smack that wildlife that wanders into their 20-tile (20x2.5 meters) viewrange.
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Aspgren

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Re: military rotation has extremely negative consequences.
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2010, 12:15:27 pm »

Custom titles.

I changed the profession of all my guards to "Guard" so they're readily apparent even off duty.  I imagine that if you use different synonyms like Warrior, Fighter, Guardian, etc, you could not only have your military easily identifiable outside when off duty but also differentiate between their equipment setups.

That's a good idea. Necessary really at this point. My poor Gem Setter...

Well can't you change his profession title post-humorously?
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Murphy

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Re: military rotation has extremely negative consequences.
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2010, 12:20:10 pm »

Quote
while training they are so very ready for some fighting.
Wrong, unless you found a way to make them actually train.
If they are doing individual training, they are civilians at that time, and will react accordingly.
Of course, you can activate them without unpausing the game, so they won't be running away for too long.
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TomiTapio

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Re: military rotation has extremely negative consequences.
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2010, 06:41:33 pm »

Quote
while training they are so very ready for some fighting.
Wrong, unless you found a way to make them actually train.
If they are doing individual training, they are civilians at that time, and will react accordingly.
Of course, you can activate them without unpausing the game, so they won't be running away for too long.

I did see some striking and dodging demonstrations going on. Even saw some of them leave when I dropped the scheduled-month order from 10 dorfs to 3.
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==OldGenesis mod== by Deon & TomiTapio. Five wood classes, four leather classes. Nine enemy civs. So much fine-tuning.
47.05e release: http://dffd.bay12games.com/who.php?id=1538
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Murphy

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Re: military rotation has extremely negative consequences.
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2010, 11:50:59 am »

Sadly, it's neither posthumous titles nor the bad thoughts that bother me about this issue. I will quote myself from another topic to again point out what's the real problem with rotation is:
Quote
See, the dwarves in the unit list are grouped by profession, and even if you custom-retitle your axedwarves to, well, axedwarves, they're still going to be scattered through that list according to their civilian skills. You then can't at a glance say how many dwarves of a given profession you have, because some of these might just be off-duty militia-dwarves.

tl;dr
I want my full-time military back!
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Hyndis

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Re: military rotation has extremely negative consequences.
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2010, 11:54:26 am »

Another nice benefit of a full time military is that they will attack hostiles at all times, even while off duty. If he's getting a drink and a dwarf goes berserk next to him he'll instantly go to attack the berserk dwarf. Or if they're training in the barracks and a kobold tries to sneak through, they go and beat down the kobold.

Currently if the dwarf is in a squad but off duty the dwarf will act like a civilian, and flee from all hostiles even if the dwarf is fully equipped with adamantine plate and a battle axe.
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Murphy

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Re: military rotation has extremely negative consequences.
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2010, 12:07:45 pm »

Yeah, you can make dwarves wear their armor and carry weapons while off-duty, but you can't make them not run away from kobolds and hoary marmots while off-duty. Weird.
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FreakyCheeseMan

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Re: military rotation has extremely negative consequences.
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2010, 12:14:36 pm »

I actually like the military being a little bitchier, cause they were always *too* happy in my games... I want a challenge, I want a spiral, but if all of my military is permanently thrilled, there's not much I can do to lose.
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Murphy

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Re: military rotation has extremely negative consequences.
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2010, 12:29:55 pm »

I guess different people want different things. I only suggest that since there's an option to keep weapons and armor on while off-duty, they should also not be afraid to use them, should they see something hostile. And it is only logical that with this option turned on they should keep their military titles while off-duty too.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2010, 12:32:00 pm by Murphy »
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Murphy

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Re: military rotation has extremely negative consequences.
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2010, 12:31:07 pm »

sorry, accidental double-post.
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Noble Digger

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Re: military rotation has extremely negative consequences.
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2010, 01:06:48 pm »

You can change the profession and nickname of dead dwarves by finding their name in the relationships screen of any existing dwarf. This will make your tombs say "Axe-God" again or whatever you prefer.
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quib·ble
1. To evade the truth or importance of an issue by raising trivial distinctions and objections.
2. To find fault or criticize for petty reasons; cavil.
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