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Author Topic: Double Sieges? (DF2010)  (Read 631 times)

Rakoth

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Double Sieges? (DF2010)
« on: April 30, 2010, 10:31:25 pm »

Did a quick search to see if there was anything like this, but I didn't spy anything similar, off-hand, so here we go.

So's I had a vile force of Darkness arrive earlier.  Admittedly, it wasn't all that impressive... except for the fact that it was comprised entirely of ranged goblins (14 bowmen) and one swordmaster; I like to think the sword-gobbo was there just to say "Fire!' and wave his pointy blade around.  Since my fort is isolated behind a big wall with a single five-tile passageway being the only way in or out - Double row of weapon traps and a final line of cage traps (to start with) protecting the interior side - a ballista pointed out just behind the cage-trap line - and a deep pit with a raising drawbridge over it blocking the way in, I was pretty safe to lure them in slowly.  Downed about 7 of them, had to do something else, so saved to exit.  Now, the siege was still going when I saved...  Came back a while later, booted up the game, and the siege tag was gone. 'Huh,' thought I, 'They must be buggering off.'

Soon as I unpaused the game, I got that delightful message of a vile force of darkness arriving - This time, a more appropriate siege force.  There was, in estimate, 40 goblins - Half hammerers, half bowmen, with a hammer lord, pikelord, and a elite crossbow-goblin leading the charge.  ALL of them were mounted on jabberers, olms, giant rats, giant bats, voracious cave dwellers (or crawlers, If forget which,) even a giant toad in there somewhere and probably other critters I forget.  The stranger thing was that there was trolls with them - That's cool, a pack of five trol- Wait, what the heck.

Another pack of trolls... with jobs. D:  A trader, a siege operator, a craftsman, an animal trainer, and I think something else.  I could only think of two things: These guys were really in it for the long haul and were going to pitch camp and wait me out, or I had a lot of misunderstood migrants.

The strange thing, though, is the double-siege.   This a new feature?  A little bug?  Was the initial group of bowmen just a fore-runner for the real evil army?   
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Dave Mongoose

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Re: Double Sieges? (DF2010)
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2010, 10:57:07 pm »

I've heard about the bug/quirk with trolls having civilian jobs, but the 'double siege' is new as far as I know. Nothing on the bug tracker about it.

My guess is that either some of the goblins were in hiding (although that would normally list as 'ambush!'), the first siege took so long that another one came along (unlikely, since 15 goblins wouldn't have taken that long), or that saving while in a siege  means than a siege is generated when you reload (which is possible, depending on how it's coded).

Overall, I think it must be a bug.
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Holy Mittens

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Re: Double Sieges? (DF2010)
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2010, 11:25:02 pm »

I got double sieged as well. I posted a bug report about it here: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1183

It got pretty ridiculous for me.

Rakoth

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Re: Double Sieges? (DF2010)
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2010, 11:21:05 am »

There seems to be a bit of a .. strangeness to this (these) siege(s), that's for troo.  Reverting to the prior save mid-siege (the first siege) either gives me the instant second siege, or it has the prior siegers buggering off and the dorf caravan arriving (in time for a nasty ambush, bah.) 

Seems to be a bit of randomness in whether the second siege hits or not.  Funnily enough, the last time I had the second siege, the three groups stopped moving entirely at one point after I raised the drawbridge, even if I lowered the bridge afterwards, though they did move about if I sent anyone out at them (which had horrible results since two of the 10+ goblin groups were all bow-users, bah.)
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Safe-Keeper

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Re: Double Sieges? (DF2010)
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2010, 12:11:59 pm »

Bug or WIP feature, I see potential in this. It has not been uncommon throughout history for different armies to reach the same battle at different times, often with disastrous results. Then we have LOTR, which has the Battle of Helm's Deep, where Gandalf arrives just in time to save the day. Given this, I wouldn't at all mind a siege system where you had several attack groups arriving at slightly different times, perhaps coordinated so that you have, say, a small vanguard to pick off civilians and soften defences, and then the main siege force.
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"Sieging humans brought some war polar bears, and one of them started a camp fire. Highly trained!" --Today One accidentally introduces the panserbjørn into Dwarf Fortress lore

Rakoth

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Re: Double Sieges? (DF2010)
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2010, 01:11:47 pm »

Yeah, "reinforcements" crossed my mind, it just seemed strange to have a siege in process crap out from loading up a save and have another immediately pop up afterward with crazy amounts more goblins.  Goblin cavalry at that!  The game just seems like it might be indecisive on whether to make it a siege or goblin ambushes+caravan.

Reinforcements is cool, but hopefully if that's the idea, then instead of another "Force of Darkness" message it's a straight-up "Reinforcements for the invasion has arrived" or the like.
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darkflagrance

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Re: Double Sieges? (DF2010)
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2010, 02:44:28 pm »

Double sieges have actually been possible since 40d. They are not new to 31.03, although other factors might be causing them to be triggered more often.

The first necessary requirement of a double siege is that the first siege is defeated extremely quickly. Sieges arrive only in the opening months of a season. They have a narrow window during which they can arrive. If a siege is defeated before this window has closed, there is a chance the game will send another siege your way.

Secondary factors might be rapid development of the fort between sieges, and the relative aggressiveness of the enemy civs that can siege you. Double sieges also appear to happen when the fort has triggered multiple factors that cause increased levels of siege forces to attack, and additionally, they only occur when the rng coincides with their occurrence.

For example, in the 3d version I regularly get two sieges a season with a ton of enemy civs modded into the game, because with 13 enemy civs I am guaranteed that two civs get the siege trigger flipped.

Also, for some reason the enemy Demon Spider civ is extremely active, and sends sieges against me every other season. On the rare occasions I have defeated a Demon Spider siege in the first three months of a season, they often send another attack my way.
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Hyndis

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Re: Double Sieges? (DF2010)
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2010, 05:01:14 pm »

If you have multiple hostile civilizations in worldgen, such as through modding new ones in, then yes you will have a never ending wave of sieges.  :)

In 40D I had forest goblins, mountain goblins, swamp goblins, ice goblins, wood elves (cannibalistic hostile zerg elves of old), drow, and arctic elves.

Needless to say, my champions were very busy!  ;D
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