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[Pilsu]

Magma heats up the creatures that live in it. I'd like to propose that the default body temperatures of any such creatures be lowered to the point they die if they ever reach it due to prolonged removal from their native element. Fire men burning out, magma men slowly solidifying and fire imps dying from the lack of heat would serve to explain why such creatures are never encountered outside their habitat and would add flavor to them. Fire men would last a relatively short time away from their source whereas magma men would take a long time to solidify, becoming increasingly sluggish as they do.

As for fire snakes, I have an idea. Who says liquid fire has to literally burn? It could alternatively be a substance with a shifting, fiery glow that absorbs heat and turns it into energy as nourishment for the critter. Treating protective clothing with it; using an alchemical process to fuse it's properties into silk, would provide protection against heat, something which would be invaluable if convection ever becomes a factor. Magma furnaces would be unbearable to work in without specially treated clothing which would help balance the lack of need for fuel magma access provides. It would also offer a counter to various heat-based enemies, some of which would realistically be unbeatable. The substance would likely lose it's radiance over time or with exposure to heat, requiring reapplying or replacement after a number of months or seasons have passed.

Additionally, I would hope that magma be made a little bit hotter than it realistically should be if we're going to maintain the ability to smelt any metal with it. As is, it just shouldn't be capable of doing so.


Thoughts?

[dood_]

Sounds like a well thought, fun idea, that makes the game a bit more realistic (or something). Good job!

[Grek]

Not so sure about liquid fire being a fire-proofing agent. Currently, fire imp leather and fire imp bones are the fire proof materials. Fire imp tallow could be used to make a fire-proofing layer instead, leaving liquid fire open to be a constantly flaming liquid.

I also agree with the magma-smithing idea abeit in the other direction. It would be better for the game if iron, platinum, steel, etc. could not be smelted with magma. Make people import coal for that stuff, and leave copper, bronze and glass as the magma-forgeable goods.

[Asewl]

Grek you forget you already have to use coal to atleast make pig iron and steal.  You ether have to get a bitmous coal vien a lignite vien or burn wood to make charcoal or coke wich for in game puposes are the same thing.  Now requiring charcoal and coke to smelt the higher temp metals like platinum iron and the magma safe nickle (I through that in cause how can it be magma safe if you use magma to melt it).  That is my suggjestion of course magma funeces might just be able to heat up the magma themselves.  Since a magma furnace is a dwarf invention and we sill humans haven't made any yet we can't know how they work because the selfish dwarfs won't sell there secrects.  YOU EVIL DWARFS.

[Lancensis]

You can easily make creatures die from cold right now, by giving them a relatively high COLDDAM_POINT. Room temperature for instance.
I think the problem with doing this would be the AI. They'd probably just blunder off on an excursion and forget to wrap up warm.

[Pilsu]

Not so sure about liquid fire being a fire-proofing agent. Currently, fire imp leather and fire imp bones are the fire proof materials. Fire imp tallow could be used to make a fire-proofing layer instead, leaving liquid fire open to be a constantly flaming liquid.

Problem with that is that it does absolutely nothing to protect you from the heat. Just because the leather doesn't melt doesn't mean you won't. Fire imp fat boils away at high temperatures so the only benefit you'd gain from rubbing yourself with it is your carcass tasting exceptionally good after the roasting.

Magma forges would be nigh worthless if you couldn't use them to process any of the good metals. While a somewhat viable of an option, it'd be undoubtedly unpopular.


Modding the COLDDAM_POINT has some foreseeable problems. Creatures aren't spawned heated by the magma and would likely die or be injured before the game catches up. The lack of convection probably makes the magma chambers chilly enough to kill the creatures, something that would be exceedingly silly. I don't think wandering is that big of a problem overall; I've yet to see them leave the pipe anyway, aside from chasing dwarves.

[sweitx]

Not so sure about liquid fire being a fire-proofing agent. Currently, fire imp leather and fire imp bones are the fire proof materials. Fire imp tallow could be used to make a fire-proofing layer instead, leaving liquid fire open to be a constantly flaming liquid.

Problem with that is that it does absolutely nothing to protect you from the heat. Just because the leather doesn't melt doesn't mean you won't. Fire imp fat boils away at high temperatures so the only benefit you'd gain from rubbing yourself with it is your carcass tasting exceptionally good after the roasting.

Magma forges would be nigh worthless if you couldn't use them to process any of the good metals. While a somewhat viable of an option, it'd be undoubtedly unpopular.


Modding the COLDDAM_POINT has some foreseeable problems. Creatures aren't spawned heated by the magma and would likely die or be injured before the game catches up. The lack of convection probably makes the magma chambers chilly enough to kill the creatures, something that would be exceedingly silly. I don't think wandering is that big of a problem overall; I've yet to see them leave the pipe anyway, aside from chasing dwarves.

I think a major problem is also that the damage is done immediately (and pretty harshly).  Which bring me to another question, doesn't creature in general has a "heat sink" value (in that how well they can "heat/cool" themselves when exposed to temperature that would cause them damage for a while)?

[Grek]

Problem with that is that it does absolutely nothing to protect you from the heat. Just because the leather doesn't melt doesn't mean you won't. Fire imp fat boils away at high temperatures so the only benefit you'd gain from rubbing yourself with it is your carcass tasting exceptionally good after the roasting.

Well, yeah, it works like that now. But the next version is overhauling materials and fire imp fat should no longer boil when exposed to the fire imp's natural habitat. Hopefully, one of the future versions will make it so that being covered in fire-proof material will protect the creature under it from direct exposure to fire.

[TiagoTiago]

btw, making magma hot enough to melt anything would result in the whole map becoming a hellhole, since any spot with unlimited magma would continuously heat things it touches,melting rock into more magma, that then melts more rock and so on, wouldn't it?

[immibis]

btw, making magma hot enough to melt anything would result in the whole map becoming a hellhole, since any spot with unlimited magma would continuously heat things it touches,melting rock into more magma, that then melts more rock and so on, wouldn't it?

Natural walls are indestructible except by mining and melting (but only in the case of ice.) (and maybe cave-ins?)

[Pilsu]

The magma is already hot enough to melt the ground surrounding it. It'd change nothing.


Even if fire doesn't touch you, it doesn't mean it can't scorch you all the same. Remember, the lard is just heat resistant. It doesn't mean it doesn't heat up. You'd just end up being covered in 800°Urist lard and that is not going to be good for your complexion. The magical matter I'm proposing would work it's way around that and provide a flavorful reason for the creatures to inhabit magma.

[atomfullerene]

Ooo, an idea for a bit of something to do with the habitat itself.  What if magma held more than a couple types of monsters and vermin.  In particular, I'm thinking of the living gems growing like fruit mentioned in the Silver Chair.  That would pose an interesting problem to extract/farm.  Some forms of harmless or mostly harmless wildlife would be neat too (classic salamanders?)