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[assimilateur]

That corpse dumping thing did sound like a myth, but so does the theory that you only get a set amount of fish in your fortress's lifetime. So far I've only read anecdotal evidence for it, and it would help a lot if someone could honestly claim that they, themselves, have depopulated their local bodies of water and not merely read about it.

The notion that vermin fish populations (or those of large prey, for that matter) are limited is even less believable if we take into account the unlimited populations of invaders.

[Innominate]

That corpse dumping thing did sound like a myth, but so does the theory that you only get a set amount of fish in your fortress's lifetime. So far I've only read anecdotal evidence for it, and it would help a lot if someone could honestly claim that they, themselves, have depopulated their local bodies of water and not merely read about it.

The notion that vermin fish populations (or those of large prey, for that matter) are limited is even less believable if we take into account the unlimited populations of invaders.

Vermin fish populations, as with all wilderness (not invader - they are spawned randomly) populations are limited. They will reproduce (on map only - no off-map reproduction at this point), but overfishing will depopulate the entire biome.

[assimilateur]

Can you provide a source for that claim? If you've personally seen your embark no longer spawn fish and game after 10 or 15 years, that's gonna be good enough for me. If you base the above on supposed "common knowledge" learned on these forum or on the wiki, then I still consider this open for discussion.

I've checked my world_sites_and_pops files from an old fortress. One was exported in spring of 51, the other in winter of 58; the populations of things like goats, turtles or foxes (all of which have been spawning on my embark, and some of which have been harvested) hasn't change by one. That, together with the fact that invader pops are unlimited, is logically inconsistent with the claim of limited fish and game populations. Now, I'm not saying that game mechanics are always logical, but in cases like this I'd need more than mere folklore to convince me otherwise.

[Haspen]

They do depopulate.

Or you wanna say that [POPULATION_NUMBER] tag in raws doesn't do anything?

Vermin and vermin fishes have [POPULATION_NUMBER:2500:5000], sometimes some other values.

[Blargityblarg]

If you export your map info, there's a text file that lists the numbers of each animal, including vermin, for each biome. I think you can technically eliminate the entirety of all animals from your biome, but that fishing and hunting work much faster than cats and vermin trapping.

Also, I believe that Nobody1225 eliminated the entire population of pretty much everything in some areas during his Age of Death tests.

FAKEEDIT: Okay, you posted while I was typing. I believe that the unlimited invaders thing was only done for invaders because invaders are a more integral part of the game than hunting and fishing. I've seen my forts run out of animals, over a period of *much* less than 15 years, but I've never been big enough on fishing to exhaust those.

FAKEEDIT2: And now Haspen posted. Has anyone here seen fish completely exhausted, i.e. not just coming back next season?

[Flaede]

Morul depopulated all fish, then went on to depopulate every other vermin, as part of leveling the fisher, trapper, and fish-squeezer skills.

don't make me search through the thread for the best quote for that, but it is true.

http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=34933.0

[assimilateur]

I'm going to take your word for it, and I guess that's not that big a deal anyway. I mean, my fortresses don't exactly "rise and fall" based on whether fish and game populations are limited, but it would be nice to know the details of how this worked and how feasible it was to mod this.

One thing that readily comes to mind is upping the population number tag on some (or all?) fish and game, but whether that would even allow one's world to properly generate remains to be seen.

With that out of the way, do you have any explanation for why the pops and sites file doesn't update its populations? Surely you must see the inconsistency of non-updating population stats with having some populations limited, and others not.

Another thing: I assume those Age of Death tests were made in adventure mode? I don't need to tell you that they aren't necessarily applicable to fortress mode, if that is the case.

[XSI]

Another thing: I assume those Age of Death tests were made in adventure mode? I don't need to tell you that they aren't necessarily applicable to fortress mode, if that is the case.

The tests were done in both adventure mode and fortress mode, there was even a community started about the age of..I'm not sure which it was, death or the other one. Either way, those ages effect the forts, if all elves died out, no elves will show up. If all wolves died out, no wolves will wander onto your map.
I'll get a link in a moment.

As for myself, I've several times exhausted fish and some game in my longer lasting forts, took me 50 years for the game, but just a wave of 6 migrant fishers only needed 2 seasons to completely fish out the brook. Also fun, if you're out of aboveground targets for hunters, they will try the underground, including fire imps. They have no problems trying to swim through magma to get to their kills.

Edit for the link:
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=46033.0

[assimilateur]

If all wolves died out, no wolves will wander onto your map.

So much was understood, but I meant something else. Namely, that the possibility of depopulating something in adv. mode does not entail the possibility of doing so in fortress mode.

Just so we're clear: I'm no longer disputing this theory of limited fish and game populations. The accounts of that Morul guy, as well as those of you who claimed to have personally depopulated fish, are good enough for me (believe it or not). I just wanted to establish that someone here has actually experienced this, and wasn't merely quoting "folklore".

[RavingManiac]

I make give every dwarf in my fortress the masonry and stone-detailing labor. This way, when I want a tunnel to be smoothed out or a megaproject to be constructed, it gets done fast.

[XSI]

Well, Morul is one of the most awesome dwarves known to..Dwarves.

As far as I know, it is possible to exterminate all non-vermin wildlife in adventure mode just as much as it is in fortress mode, it's just a lot easier to set 20 dwarves to hunting and have the animals come to you rather then making an adventurer and going out to hunt down thousands of animals.

According to the age of x thread though, depopulating things in adventure mode will not always make the game recognise the extinction, new ones will be generated when needed, or in case of wolves, an adventurer will be ambushed by nothing at all. All wolves died, but the game still decided wolves ambush him/her.

I think I'm missing the point. But that's ok I guess, I'm usually asleep at this time.

..Oh, right, eccentric behaviors....Er..I have a single tomb ready for dwarves that will soon fail a mood(No silk or something like that), if they fail the mood, they will be buried, if they survive it, they earned that tomb. In both cases I make a new tomb.