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[Misterstone]

http://www.nethack.org/

Of course.  You see, Nethack with DF combat mechanics and other features would be awesome enough to usher in a new intergalactic age of peace and understanding.

[alfie275]

Nethack isn't procedural, its random.

[Percival]

Strange moods for non-workshop jobs? That is, miner goes crazy, digs a maze; mechanic goes crazy, creates elaborate death trap.

Maybe your whole fortress can get a collective fey mood, and everyone works together to build a bizarre/menacing landmark.

[lucusLoC]

i like it for civ leaders. i definitely *do not* like it for your own dorfs. you are the crazy mastermind behind your fort.

i guess in a way that means your whole for is in fact having one big strange mood while you are in charge. when we have an option to let the settlement run on its own it will actually have more meaning.

[Julien Brightside]

But sometimes I wish there could just be some crazy dungeons on the world map for no other reason than because some apeshit insane historical figure decided to build a gigantic tower or underground lair full of traps and bizarre creatures.  I don't just mean tunnels or empty rooms full of critters to find, mind you, I'm talking about structures that use fully integrated features such as levers, pressure plates, mechanisms that open doors or cause nasty things to happen, traps, flooded chambers, pumps that spew magma from the depths of the earth, the whole nine yards.

Until something more nuanced and contiguous with world history can be implemented, could it be possible for say 1 in 1000 or so civilization or religious leaders to suddenly go bugnuts insane and build a gigantic deathtrap tower/dungeon of ultimate doom, filled with bizarre enemies (as per the new HFS) at the top/bottom of which might be found a large treasure trove of some kind?  Just to keep us interested in adventuring and to, uh, test the game better.   

Your post makes me think of the average DF fortress builder.

[tfaal]

Wouldn't dungeons be more believable if they were extremely complex tombs? Perhaps some kind of necropolis? Hell, have an evil wizard set up shop in one of them and start making zombies. Then you've got a plausible reason for a massive underground complex, a bunch of spooky creatures to fight, phat lootz too steal and a big climactic battle at the end. Now that I think about it, necromancers and demon summoners would be pretty easy first implementations of wizards.

[Felblood]

Nethack isn't procedural, its random.

Wouldn't dungeons that are "just kludged in" be mostly random anyway?

For dungeons to be meaningfully different from what's already out there, they need to be done right, which means we need to have patience.

[Capntastic]

Just gonna add that the current caves and such could be considered kludged in dungeons, and by asking for better dungeons, you're asking for Toady to spend effort working on improving something that is already kludged, thus postponing actual progress.

[Grendus]

I thought the new caverns were either procedurally or randomly generated, not hard coded. Kludging suggests something that's not done right, these seem to be done to Toady's approval, so you couldn't call them kludged.

[Misterstone]

Look, if Toady had decided that every single thing in DF had to be "done right" and procedurally produced before adding it into the game there would be no game.  The older 2D stuff was a bit of a kludge; I mean, every single site had a river, lava, chasm and HFS, which had to be completely redone.  I'm just suggesting that adding an simply version of some stuff for adventurers to have fun with might be in the interest of beta testing and attracting more general interest in the game.  If we are talking about human structures that get "built" during history, rather than something that affects the entire geological layout of the world, I don't see why it couldn't simply be wiped clean when he decides he wants to work on a more realistic option, or decides he doesn't want it in the game at all any more.

[Neonivek]

I thought the new caverns were either procedurally or randomly generated, not hard coded. Kludging suggests something that's not done right, these seem to be done to Toady's approval, so you couldn't call them kludged.

It is sort of half and half.

Toady basically increased the odds of caves forming many times greater then real life.

[Eric Blank]

Go ahead and kludge around, it's what gets things done, and allows you to learn. Creating backup copies is acceptable and most intelligent people do it, so mistakes are negligible short of slaughtering Toady's (or our own) hardware. Having dungeons is a good proposal and not entirely senseless. It would at least add some form of entertainment.