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[Ampersand]

Games like this should provide ample opportunity for ahistorical approaches. The event system is flexible enough that it's possible to essentially mod any conceivable thing in. The only problem is that the default system isn't robust enough to handle, say, Tibet conquering Ming China.

As for how my experiments with -that- went, I can say, better than I expected. I made a stupid mistake in my last run by invading China again, while sharing a land boarder with British India, but I won't make that one again.

In any case. converting 90 percent of the populace to clergymen and the rest to soldiers, and relying on monthly chinese war reimbursement seems to be a viable strategy so far. Tibet won't become self-sufficent until you secure provinces with valuable resources like tropical wood, coal, and silk. Until that's accomplished, you have an entirely yak based economy.

As for Texas, I had this idea where, after Emperor Maximilian is put on the Throne of Mexico, Mexico could invade and make Texas a satellite, and force European style monarchy on them. The Empire of Texas. Not just a deviation from history, but chasing history into a back alley and beating it to death.

[mainiac]

The smuggest, stupidest "fact" you peedle...

More smug then you going completely off the rails and then accusing history of being the one in the wrong?

[John Hopoate]

The smuggest, stupidest "fact" you peedle...

More smug then you going completely off the rails and then accusing history of being the one in the wrong?

Bother addressing the points I made and I might be bothered to argue with you

Yes I'm trying to outsmug you, that's the point

[Goron]

but the Me-162, V-1 and V-2 were all wastes of money. I don't have time to go into the details but any serious military historian will tell you the same thing.

You should re-read my posts.
I will try and make my point more clear for you:
Never once did I say the v2 was an important military weapon for the German war effort. So please stop trying to throw around 'serious military historian' references. I couldn't care less about military historians. Any serious rocketry, space exploration, or engineering historian would agree that the v2 was essential to future rocketry research. Heck, I bet even a military historian with any bit of brains would agree the v2 was essential to rocketry research(*)
*Notice I wrote rocketry research, not war effort.

In fact, I believe I clearly admitted the v2 was a poor focus for the German military effort. I'll quote myself for you:

Yes, Hitler's reality was off, resulting in some very poor strategic decisions. Including the focus on terror weapons (rocketry).

I did indicate I believe the v2 was an effective terror weapon- and I am fairly certain any military historian would agree- but that is not the same as saying it was a cost effective weapon or that it advanced Germany's war effort.

Now, to finish up: I do have time to go into details...
The research involved with the v2 was essential precursor research for modern rocketry. The v2 cleared the way for manned space exploration. Any historian would agree with that. Try reading up on the Redstone. It was the next evolution of the V2 and it just happened to be developed by the same German engineers.

So before you come back and say waaaaa waaaaa but the v2 didn't win the war!, please, please, try reading my post and realize I don't care. I am not claiming the v2 was an effective tool for the German war effort, I am simply reminding everyone it was not wasted technology and it was not wasted money. Sure, Germany didn't benefit from the expense or effort, but mankind did.

[mainiac]

I think your mixing the two of us up.  I'm the one saying that the V-2 didn't win the war, not JH.

As for the V-2 being a successful avenue eventually, my reply would be why yes, of course it was!  That's my entire point.  It's not that rocketry was a dead end or the research work was anything but top notch.  I'm just saying that Hitler wanted the technology before it could be realistically delivered.  So even though the technology was a very promising avenue, the research was a gigantic waste of time.


As for you JH, you say that I need to disprove your points.  Why exactly?  I'm arguing for the historical orthodox position (what actually happened) the burden of proof is on you to prove that such things were possible.  I mean, sure I could point out something like that Prussia hadn't yet introduced the American  manufacturing techniques that were needed for large scale machinegun production.  But you could just say that the Prussia in your game might have developed those techniques themselves.  You are creating a disingenious standard that can't be met.

As an example, I ask you:
Why shouldn't the USA be able to make AK-47's in 1836?  After all, every tool needed to make the AK-47 already existed in 1836.  The AK-47 is a far, far, simpler machine then many of the weapons of that era.  Shouldn't the game model how the USA could use assault riffles to conquer Mexico during the Mexican American war?

[Goron]

I think your mixing the two of us up.  I'm the one saying that the V-2 didn't win the war, not JH.

nah, I was responding to him (the quote at start of my post).
I woulda' stayed a little more civil in my post if it was directed towards you 

And, you make an excellent point with your ak47 line of thought... To further back that up, I will mention that its my belief that (most) all of the precursor work done prior to the AK was necessary for Kalashnikov to come up with his design ideas. Like, for example the new (for the time) concept of close range firefights and that high powered (what I'd call battle rifle caliber) cartridges were essentially 'too powerful' for the time. Prior to WWII most battles were (more) static long range affairs, therefore to design an assault rifle for WWI would have been silly. They wanted 'big long range rifles' in order to match the battles of the time. Had Kalashnikov been alive 100 years earlier and put in a similar situation, I am certain he would have not have designed an assault rifle simply because the need for that type of weapon was non-existent. He would have used the existing background info and history of combat to make a rifle suited to the need of the era. In my opinion.

So in short, yes, I agree the mechanical technology to produce an assault rifle has been available for 200 years, and I likewise do not think the doctrine (which is usually one-half step behind the existing weapons of the time) would have warranted the design of such a weapon.

[Ampersand]

But if history has already been sheered far enough from the true historical line for Prussia to have conquered most of Austria, who's to say what the standard type of warfare is at that point? In any case, the Machine Gun technology in Victoria likely refers to a weapon similar to the original Gatling Gun, not an Assault Rifle, which is something completely different. And yes, the Gatling gun is something that would have very obvious uses in fighting post Napoleonic style armies.

[Servant Corps]

You forget the one variable that could explain why Prussia would refuse to punish Austria:

Badboy wars.

[Croquantes]

Ugh. Badboy is so stupid sometimes. It makes playing as a small nation nearly impossible!

[Goron]

Ugh. Badboy is so stupid sometimes. It makes playing as a small nation nearly impossible!

no no, it makes playing a small nation very easy... you only tend to accrue badboy from getting big:-)

[mainiac]

I've never really felt to urge to become a warmongering conquerer in Victoria.  To me it's a game about becoming the richest, not painting to world one color.

[Gantolandon]

Ugh. Badboy is so stupid sometimes. It makes playing as a small nation nearly impossible!

You get badboy only from conquering non-core provinces. The core ones are free to grab - so playing as one of German minors, for example, is safe. You can also buy claims, and "Manifest destiny" gives you some.

[Ampersand]

You can buy almost any province provided you can put up the money. Even core provinces. Just not capitals.