Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Footkerchief]

One problem with this sort of thing is what happens when you have two opposing spheres combined. Say, you have kittens (let's pretend they have the life sphere), and bone (death sphere). Therefore, kitten bone would have both life and death sphere tags.

Given that for deities, opposing spheres are precluded, I would think a similar thing would hold in this situation, which then leaves us with the question of which tag we should delete; the original, the added template, or both?

My personal preference is to remove both, but in either case it should be discussed before implementing it.

The comparison to deities is a little fallacious because deities (and entities) are meant to have coherent interests and goals.  A material has no agency -- as Warlord noted, the sphere links are a matter of interpretation.  Still, though, it would be a stretch to regard bones as symbolic of life, no matter what creature they came from.  So perhaps the sphere links for the general material (wood, bone, etc.) should preclude certain sphere links for any sub-material -- e.g. for kitten bone, the general association of bone with death would preclude the specific association of kittens with life.  The existing preclusion table is sufficient for this, I think.

However, specific materials should still be able to specify sphere links that would ordinarily preclude each other -- that's where subjectivity comes in.  For example, water precludes fire, but obsidian should be symbolic of both.

[Neonivek]

It isn't a stretch for symbols to have contradictory views.

Snakes have been everything from evilness, sensuality, and healing (Let us not forget about dimensional travel, visions, poison, power, disasters, Armagedon)

The color white has often been the color of life and death within the same society.

If a creature has two contradictory subjective domains it should have a chance to exclude one or the other... but it shouldn't automatically cancel one out just because.

[dizzyelk]

Say, you have kittens (let's pretend they have the life sphere), and bone (death sphere). Therefore, kitten bone would have both life and death sphere tags.

If kitten bones stood for life and death, maybe that could be combined into something like rebirth? Or possibly, the follower of the god of death would focus on the bone/death part, but a follower of the god of life would focus on the kitten/life part.

[Impaler[WrG]]

I agree with Neonivek, things should be able to have a multiplicity of symbols often opposing meanings, such situations should even be common as every symbol naturally leads to its own opposite becoming associated with it due to the binary nature of so much of our thinking.

[Granite26]

I think we've left the realm of feasibility behind, but it's possible that irony could multiply the potency of opposing symbols.

Bones symbolize death, but kitten bones are an even more powerful symbol of death because it takes the symbol of life (kittens) and applies the symbol for death to it.

[n2]

The idea is great. Also evil worshippers should like bloodstained cloth, meat of their kin and kitten juice.

[Footkerchief]

I think we've left the realm of feasibility behind, but it's possible that irony could multiply the potency of opposing symbols.

Bones symbolize death, but kitten bones are an even more powerful symbol of death because it takes the symbol of life (kittens) and applies the symbol for death to it.

I like that, although you'd still have to figure out which sphere "wins."  Perhaps you could still use the general-material-always-trumps-creature thing I mentioned above.

[Grumshar]

In the case of the "kitten bones" with links to both life and death, why have one win?

The link information could be stored in a data structure such as a set, or even a "junction" (per the Perl 6 notion).

The use of this, is that when a being makes USE of such a material, they may CHOOSE which association is intended.  (The choice is presumably encoded into the created object.)

For example, two beings each make/decorate an item with kitten bones, from a culture with the LIFE+DEATH symbolisms for that material.  One uses the bones to suggest LIFE, one uses them to suggest DEATH.

Come to think of it, an artist might choose to NOT choose a single association (encoding the set/junction of symbolisms in the created object), using kitten bones in a work to symbolize LIFE (and/or/both) DEATH -- depending on the interpretation of the viewer.

[silhouette]

Going with animals that give milk, it should only get symbolism of food if that race will use that milk. If that milk is poisonous it should have a poisonous symbolism

So lets say Cow milk is poisonous to Goblins

Humans could associate cows with food
Goblins however would associate cows with poison, assasination, and possibly their version of evil

Great.
Now you have me thinking of a situation with goblins and humans.

Now goblins know that cows milk is poisonous but dont know that humans are fine with it and may actually benifit with it.

So now these goblins, use cows milk as a poison.
They start raiding a human settlement and start throwing milk everywhere and fire arrows covered in milk.
The humans react by drinking some of the milk and continue on with battle.
The goblins now horrified how the humans could survive drinking the most poisonous substance to them either a) run the hell away as theyre terrified.
or b) think humans are a greater evil being able to stand cows milk and now worship humans like demons...

[Osmosis Jones]

Oh man, epic necro.

But, since I'm here :p 

 

If kitten bones stood for life and death, maybe that could be combined into something like rebirth?

Dizzyelk, if your still around, I like that idea. If you gave any opposing spheres a third, neutral sphere (say day + night = twilight, or black + white = grey), you could allow any two opposing spheres to nullify. And since there really aren't that many directly opposed spheres, it probably wouldn't take to much effort to implement.

Or possibly, the follower of the god of death would focus on the bone/death part, but a follower of the god of life would focus on the kitten/life part.

I could see this getting fiddly, especially if someone hated one sphere but loved the other.

[Felblood]

Fiddly indeed, but it's got to be possible.

I really don't think we can afford to strip out precursor symbols, though they don't need to be inherited 100% of the time.

Let's say there's a culture that associates deer with life, food, and prosperity, but also associates skulls with death. It's hunters might decorate their homes with deer skull totems, as a good luck charm, or just as a way of decorating the place with symbols of prosperity. Houseguests that are deeply offended by anything to do with death are not likely to be amused.

I've used an example that is a little close to home, to get the plausibility across, but this could still work with much more alien symbols.