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Author Topic: Our city has no place for you  (Read 2850 times)

slMagnvox

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Re: Our city has no place for you
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2007, 02:59:00 am »

The original post's idea is still a valid concept, I think.  While an immigrant was blinking X you could v->p->Deny Immigrant.  An off duty soldier or fort guard would go have a talk with him, shake his fist a few times, and he would resume his blinking X status and hit the road.

It might be fun to have a chance of failure that causes the denied Dwarf to go berserk and murderous.  Dwarves just get like that, ya know?

This is not really a metagame issue, just a little gameplay strategy that might be useful / fun in certain games, especially RP and challenge games.

The bigger issue, immigration control, is more wide open and has a larger impact.

Personally, I would like, as the Fort developed past 80 or so Dwarves, to get more EXP immigrants.  More EXP soldiers would be awesome too.  Spare me the dialogue screen and new nobles.  Linking this to the existing Guild dwarves (Mason's Guild, Craftdwarves Guild, House Fer, Order of the Spear) would seem natural.  I wouldn't really want too much control over the issue, but if I had the Mason's guild in my fort, I might get a Skilled Mason / Skilled Building Designer.  Or if I had the High Sword I might get a Proficient Sworddwarf.  Armed an <<iron>> for extra coolness.  If I have House Fer I might get a Competent Grower, Competent Cook.  More EXP makes for better population.  And immigration waves worth waiting for, not to mention worth the 60+ minutes of tweaking to get everyone integrated.

Hurray for armchair programming!

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Tamren

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Re: Our city has no place for you
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2007, 03:36:00 pm »

I thought about that a bit in an earlier post. http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000997

The point was to not have a central "allow/deny" switch when it comes to immigration.

Rather all of the different skills are linked to a House, a union sort of. Through that union you could encourage or discourage the immigration of dwarves with different skills.

So if you had one of the union reps at your fortress, more skiled workers would be likely to turn up because they can see that thier house has a presence there.

UNLESS said representative tells the rest of the union that workers of a certain type are not in demand. This makes sense because once the economy is around you will not earn much money if your skills are not needed.

This would hardly be the final word though, because married couples would show up together regardless of any restrictions. And of course there is the ever present random factor.

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slMagnvox

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Re: Our city has no place for you
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2007, 02:21:00 pm »

quote:
UNLESS said representative tells the rest of the union that workers of a certain type are not in demand. This makes sense because once the economy is around you will not earn much money if your skills are not needed.

When have union representatives ever said the labor or craft they represent is not in demand?  Hah.  In other words, if you got a Masons Guild in your fort, there is no way you'll be denying Masons.

The OP mentioned a possible jail term for dwarves who turn away an immigrant.  Well, if you got House Fer in town and your Fort Guard turns away a Farmer .. hope he likes pig tail chains and drinking bucket water for the next 125 days.  Violations of fair labor practices are no laughing matter.

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Tamren

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Re: Our city has no place for you
« Reply #48 on: June 02, 2007, 03:56:00 pm »

Thats not true. If your skill is NOT in demand why show up at all when there are MUCH more job opportunities out there? And if the dwarves hear it from the union representative himself they are much less likely to ignore the warning.

If you were a mason, and showed up to my fortress when i already have 10 of them, i will do one of 2 things.
1. Draft you.
2. Make you haul trash all day.

#1 is not desirable for obvious reasons, if you wanted soldiers at your fort you could simply attract recruits and novice soldiers.
#2 is also not desirable because it means you are effectively performing a job below your station and your talents are wasted. Dwarves are not unhappy about this now but they probably will be in the future.

Even just the threat of getting drafted, especially if your fortress is in a hostile area would keep most dwarves away.

BUT! heres the thing, the union representative lobbies for changes that would benefit his union!
1. He would demand that work be given to the dwarves in his field of expertise. This is hardly a problem for workers with steady jobs, IE brewers, miners and the like.
2. He would lobby for better conditions for the workers.
3. He would only allow you to draft a limited number of workers per year.
4. He would allow you to discourage possible migrants, but would NOT allow you to cut off immingration completetly to workers in his union.

These are all things you will have to deal with when the rep takes up residence. But it is the price you pay for the increased control and greater knowledge you have about said workers.

So what is the whole point of this? Well, in this way, you can keep migrants out and still keep the rep happy.

Why not integrate both suggestions? Lets say i get the House Ber lady to tell all incoming farmers that i will not need them for oh... 2 years.

So first year goes by, 1 farmer shows up, but only because she was married to a smith, which you desperatly needed. Kicking her out would anger the smith and he would leave as well.

Second year rolls around, the warning is still in effect at this point. In the spring, no farmers show up. In the autumn however, a small group turns up that includes 2 farmers.

Now you can still go the big bad wolf route here and say:
"we dont need you, get out"
But that would probably anger at least a few dwarves in your fortress, but since we put that warning out earlier the conversation would go more like:
"You were warned that we have no room for more farmers, now please move on"

In either case, you could STILL offer to draft them in which case you get more soldiers, never a bad thing unless you lack for food. Or you could take them in with the understanding that they will be performing menial work until a job becomes available.

Make sense? In hindsight both methods work pretty well, but they also mesh together in a good way.

[ June 02, 2007: Message edited by: Tamren ]

[ June 02, 2007: Message edited by: Tamren ]

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