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[Grimlocke]

Recentelly I have been trying to make my own weapons mod that removes some default weapons^*, renames and rebabances a few, and adds a large number of new ones. Amongst those a number of twohanded weapons for dwaves and a nice collection of polearms like voulges, ranseurs, guisames, etc. I tried to mod in at least 1 for each damage type, and think I did a decent job at it.

But theres a bit of a problem. Worldgen creatures dont seem to recognise some weapons as twohanded, and thus use the twohanded weapon onehanded, with a shield in the other hand.

I mostly solved this for non-fortress races by giving all polearms the pike skill, and renaming my pikemen to polearm wielders. But, for twohanded swords this will look silly.

I tried to solve this problem in my modded entity by completely deleting shields from their entity file, but that didnt work either. They stubbornly continue to show up with shields, even though I cant make them when playing them in fortress mode.

So, what I wanted to ask is:
- Is there some way to make creatures use twohanded weapons properly?
- If not, is it possible to remove shield for certain entities entirly?
- Does anyone know a shorter term for 'polearm wielder'?
- How will worldgen creatures handle twohanded weapons in the much anticipated next version?


*silly blowpipes, but also the pike. As a formation dependant weapon like that doesnt make sense in formationless DF.

[Xehon]

Apparently there is a bug in the current version that makes all creatures in adv. mode wield weapons any way they want, e.g. one-handed. I don't know yet if this will be fixed in the coming version, but lets hope so. In fortress mode everything should be working as normal though.

I don't think the mechanic it self will change a lot. Weapon will still be probably tied to specific sizes, at which the weapon can be wielded either two-handed or one-handed. Difference being that there will be a larger scale to work on and the possibility to make creatures of the same race wield weapons differently because of size variation.

[snuflufagus]

Polearm wielder = halberdier
Alternately, you could just say heavy infantry.

You could create a custom shield of armor level 2 with next to zero blockchance and blockpower and set that to an entity in place of the standard shield.  Then soldiers in that entity will carry that relatively worthless shield rather than the standard shields.  For historical flavor, you could name the gimp shield a bracer or a pelta.

Well, maybe a pike does have some historical precedence before the phalanx... both Achilles and Hector were described as carrying abnormally long and heavy spears, but then maybe they were just compensating for something?

[Deon]

There's nothing wrong with 1h wielding. You can do it with two handed sword.

However it divides the attack and damage rolls by 2. So basically with a shield you're twice worse.

[Grimlocke]

Apparently there is a bug in the current version that makes all creatures in adv. mode wield weapons any way they want, e.g. one-handed. I don't know yet if this will be fixed in the coming version, but lets hope so. In fortress mode everything should be working as normal though.

Difference being that there will be a larger scale to work on and the possibility to make creatures of the same race wield weapons differently because of size variation.

In fortress mode they seem to wield twohanded weapons onehanded as well, you can see it in vanilla version with the gobbos wielding both twohanded sword and a shield.

Also, Cant wait to see dward-sized humans compensating with a two handed sword

Though it would be even more neat if weapons had variable sizes as well. There could be just 1 raw entry for 'sword' with min/max lengths, widths, number of edges as well as random choices for curvature, guard shape, etc. Could also allow some interesting random polearms.

Insert Quote
Polearm wielder = halberdier
Alternately, you could just say heavy infantry.

You could create a custom shield of armor level 2 with next to zero blockchance and blockpower and set that to an entity in place of the standard shield.  Then soldiers in that entity will carry that relatively worthless shield rather than the standard shields.  For historical flavor, you could name the gimp shield a bracer or a pelta.

Well, maybe a pike does have some historical precedence before the phalanx... both Achilles and Hector were described as carrying abnormally long and heavy spears, but then maybe they were just compensating for something?

According to the dictionary a halberdier is a wielder of a halberd, not of any polearm. Still, I might use this as its at least close and sounds kinda neat.

The problem with shields I have isnt realy a problem of game balance though, its more that I just think it looks realy silly that they use them along with massive polearms, which are weapons that are not only too long and heavy to use onehanded, but also strongly rely on the leverage of twohanded wielding. For example, google a voulge or bardiche, and immagine trying to use it with 1 hand.

There's nothing wrong with 1h wielding. You can do it with two handed sword.

However it divides the attack and damage rolls by 2. So basically with a shield you're twice worse.

So yeah, I do think theres a lot wrong with wielding twohanded weapons with 1 hand. In theory you could hurt something with it, but not without a lot of fumbling clumsyness.

You also shouldnt underestimate a twohanded sword. The German zweihander for example was allmost as tall as a man; with only 1 hand you could probably just stab with it, or manage a single swing before having to labour the thing up in the air again, probably being cut down by a far faster foe before that.

Twohanded swords also rely a lot on twohanded levarage by the way. They arnt twohanded just because if their size (which is commonly overestimated). There is a reason most of them have an enlongated ricasso (the unshapered bit of blade behind the guard) and some of them even have a second guard behind the ricasso.

[shadowsofwhite]

It is possible to remove shields from an entity; however, in adventure mode, you will ALWAYS start with a shield, unless you use the "play now" function.

It IS also possible to use a two handed weapon properly, but you must remove your shield and have your hands free before picking up said two handed weapon.