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[mutant mell]

quote:Originally posted by Lyrax:
<STRONG>Can you really see dwarves planting sunberries?  Outside?  It's not an image that really comes easily, but my dwarves do it all the time.  I don't like arbitrary limits based on race, saying "oh, well you can't do that because you're a human/dwarf/elf/goblin/flying spaghetti monster."

Screw that.  Maybe my civilization doesn't know how to.  Maybe I have to capture or hire a human mage to teach my dwarves how to do it, or import a book that costs a ton of money before we can learn.  Maybe I even have to go about it a different way, training my fireball-throwing dwarves from a pyrophilic religion that regards magma as the sacred blood of the earth, and metals as the gift of the gods to dwarfkind.  But I should be able to do it.

It's ok that it's easy for one race and hard for another (elves can just walk up to a unicorn and tame it, but dwarves need a Dungeon Master... etc.) but I hate the idea that humans and dwarves and elves are all so different that they can't EVENTUALLY do most, if not all of the same things.  They should really only differ in what comes naturally to them.  Humans can't buy steel from the homeland.  Elves don't start with plump helmets.  But humans can smelt steel, if they have the resources.  Elves can farm underground, if they dig out a farm and import some seeds from the dwarves.</STRONG>

EXACTLY my sentiments.  Give races tendencies towards magic (and, well, anything in the game).  But don't make it so that they cannot do it.

And honestly, I don't think it is that big of a stretch to see a group of dwarfs casting spells like that.  Maybe its not a common sight, but I don't think it should be entirely out of the picture.

[Drunken]

Hmm, these magic threads get very long quite fast.

In reply to the OP: I like your ideas a lot but I would like to suggest one change.

If my dabbling stoneworker dabbling planter puny new immigrant or ex-peasant went fey and made a legendary magical stone golem I would feel that was a bit silly. Even a legendary stonecrafter might not necessarily know anything about runes and magic. I would like to suggest that there is a rune/magic skill and the resulting artifacts magical properties depend on this skill. I can think of a lot of ways that this skill should be learned including just reading magical books or by getting legendary at a job.

[Kagus]

Dammit, now I have to make a Flying Spaghetti Monster megabeast.

*The Flying Spaghetti Monster touches you in the left lower leg with his noodly appendage!
*It is mangled!
*You fall over.

[ChaosFollowing]

quote:Originally posted by Drunken:
<STRONG>In reply to the OP: I like your ideas a lot but I would like to suggest one change.

If my dabbling stoneworker dabbling planter puny new immigrant or ex-peasant went fey and made a legendary magical stone golem I would feel that was a bit silly. Even a legendary stonecrafter might not necessarily know anything about runes and magic.</STRONG>

Thanks, and yes...you raise a good point.

This could be explained by "magical runes" being inherently indecipherable to normal dwarves. A strange mood then becomes the sudden rush of understanding(whether by a moment of fey genius or possession, etc). Such clarity of thought cannot be maintained for long(and it runs close to madness, which is why we get insane dwarves when constructions cannot be completed).

If a no-skills dwarf can construct a basalt floodgate, then a dabbling mason dwarf should be able to construct a rough golem shape. The force that powers the golem has nothing to do with stonecrafting, but with the transitory understanding of magic(runes). The clarity gained from the experience has a profound impact on the dwarf's abilities in that field(explaining sudden Legendary skills).

Edit: Additional thought to the above. In this scenario, viewing engravings should increase a dwarf's likelihood of being chosen for a strange mood. Normal, run of the mill stone carvings then become, in essence, your magic universities. The more runes a dwarf is exposed to, the greater chance that dwarf will gain a glimpse into the mysteries of magical runes.

[ March 25, 2008: Message edited by: ChaosFollowing ]

[Silverionmox]

quote:Originally posted by Othob Rithol:
<STRONG>Engraving each and every weapon to boost its damage, and every armor piece to make it better sounds like a good add-in.</STRONG>

Excuse me, that sounds horrible.

Magic shouldn't be some form of science and mechanics. If science is universal, predictable and repeatable then magic should be personal, capricious and unique.

Making rune engraving a standard procedure in mass item production will only cause it to lose its luster. Dwarves should engrave runes as part of artifact creation, or when the inspiration strikes them, preferably on a moment of great personal importance and with a form and effect that is closely tied to their personal preferences. For example, a dwarf that likes fire opals and earrings might engrave his own earring with a fire rune when his firstborn sees the light. Or a fisherman could summon a water elemental when pursued by a platoon of goblins. Or when crowned, a king might engrave a rune of prosperity in the main meeting hall. Etcetera.

So occasionally a dwarf might do an ordinary action in an extraordinary way.

[Mikademus]

quote:Originally posted by Silverionmox:
<STRONG>

   quote:Originally posted by Othob Rithol:
   "Engraving each and every weapon to boost its damage, and every armor piece to make it better sounds like a good add-in."

Excuse me, that sounds horrible.

Magic shouldn't be some form of science and mechanics. If science is universal, predictable and repeatable then magic should be personal, capricious and unique.
</STRONG>

I don't think that was what he meant. You can engrave every single one of your items, but the outcome of the engraving would not be precise, predetermined, scientific, or mass-producable. On the other hand, any engraved item would be worth more than non-engraved, in that more work has gone into it, and their aesthetic value has increased. Dwarvish ethno is in, yua know.

[Mikademus]

In answer to the replies regarding racial predilections and freedom of choice, I'd like to elaborate a bit on dwarfish priests rather than mages. AD&D handles this quite well. Different species are the creations of different gods, and are as such essentially different. All Dwarves, pious or not, worshipping other gods or not, are followers of their creator (Eizxwzxhxz something or other, lots of z's and other fantasy letters, the god with dominion over stone and earth and wuznot). Having different essential supernatural proclivities does affect races' dispositions, aptitudes and starting options. They are still free to go in different directions, but it would take much work and investment.

Thus, Dwarves could build different shrines which would influence the kind of magic "produced". (These dwarves could perhaps be recruited into the guard or into squads). However, Dwarves do not start with the option to build Wizard Towers (mage academies), Necrodomes, Summoning Chambers or Woodweaver Choir Huts, which humans, goblins or elves do. Could they build them? Perhaps they can negotiate with the other races, or offer incitaments for one of them to immigrate. Be nice to trees and you might get an elf Woodsinger. Kiss human ass and get a Wizard. Or discover that ancient scroll or get a morbid mood (perhaps in a haunted region?) and your architect converts a graveyard or tomb to a Necrodome or carves out a summoning chamber.

[Kaelem Gaen]

I think I like the Runic Magic, along with the "But they can learn how to cast."

On a side note, When I see mention of Runic magic, my mind instantly goes to the Runelord Series.   They get these brands with various runes on them (Will, Glamor, Metabolism.. so on and so forth.) but it is a two person gig, for these runes to work on the rune lords, they need to gather said attributes from someone else, who then loses it (Completely, though if they die when you remove the att, you lose the effect of it.)

Anyways, I also like the Alchemy thing.