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[Dvergar]

There have been several similar topics in the past, but none have been quite like this one.

i suggest that before plagues and such we impliment a much simpler infection system.

Dwarves with injured limbs will have a chance to become infected based on how damaged the limb is (with lopped off being extremely severe and requiring attention)

There is a new task added under health care in which a bandage will be administered for each injury.

The bandage would be made of cloth, silk, or adamantime at a clothiers shop

"Infected" dwarves will generate miasma every so often, have a high chance of damaging an internal organ, and increase the chance of infection for any other dwarf.

The infection would deal damage by making a roll each day and testing it against the "difficulty class" of the infection, depending on phase of infection and possibly organ in question"  Failed rolls would result in one shade of damage

Infection would have three stages:

1) Fully treatable and low chance of damaging organs
2)Treatment only prevents escalation of infection to 3, injured organs have moderate chance of being damaged, healthy organs have low chance
3)Treatment futile, all organs take guarenteed damage, the dwarf is going to die.

[Timst]

1) Fully treatable and low chance of damaging organs
2)Treatment only prevents escalation of infection to 3, injured organs have moderate chance of being damaged, healthy organs have low chance
3)Treatment futile, all organs take guarenteed damage, the dwarf is going to die.

Well, with this choice we either have a benign disease (1), or the guarantee that the dwarf will die sooner (3) or later (2). Something more pondered, from a scale from 0 to 10 :

0 - Healthy dwarf. No infection whatsoever.
1 - Benign infection. Cannot evolve to greater disease. The dwarf is tired or need to eat or drink more often, and recover by himself after a short period of time.
2 - Very small infection. Same symptoms as above, but the dwarf can either (depending on his toughness attribute, maybe) recover without intervention or go to level 3.
3 - Small infection. Same symptoms, but more annoying : The dwarf is tired when doing almost every hard manual jobs (mining, woodcutting, fighthing, etc). The disease cannot (or with a very low chance) disappear by itself, it has to be treated. Hopefully, it is easily treated provided you have access to basic medicinal plants.
4 - Medium infection. The dwarf is now tired after every job. The disease HAS to be treated, and WILL evolve to a worse situation if left untreated.
5 - Incapacitating infection. The dwarf cannot work at all, and is most likely in his bed. The infection will evolve quicker if the dwarf can't have access to a bed, plus he will move slower. Tougher and longer to heal, but still easy with the required medicine.
6 - Bad infection. If the dwarf hasn't access to a bed, he will fall on the ground and won't be able to move. Some organs start taking damage. Harder to heal.
7 - Very bad infection. The dwarf may fall unconscious if is toughness attribute is too low. Organe take more damage and faster. If you haven't access to advanced healing devices, the situation is critical.
8 - Severe infection. The dwarf is more likely unconscious now. Organs start to damage themselves faster. Bleeding can occur. Will require immediate assistance with the best medicine and physicist available.
9 - Critical infection. The dwarf is in a very difficult situation. Organs very damaged, heavy bleeding etc. Even with the best healing available, the dwarf may die.
10 - Too late. The infection has spread to the whole body, and is too strong to be treated even with the best medicine and doctor of all the civilization. Death can not be avoided, and will usually occur in a few days.

If left untreated, the dwarf may recover (1-3 stages) without intervention, but after the situation will worsen faster and faster with each level.
Additionnaly, theses symptoms can appear, worsening the situation (accelerating the spread of the disease and giving bad toughts) :

- Vomiting (from 4 to 10).
- Lost of counsciousness (from 7 to 10)
- Bleeding (from 8 to 10)

Additionally, the dwarf could be paralyzed, but since it's a "brain" condition...

The recovery time will be longer and longer for each situation, because you can't recover instantly (ie, going to 6 to 0), but rather have to go from 6 to 5, then from 5 to 4, etc., meaning that a dwarf will need healing to at least the level 3, although it will be more cautious to heal it up to level 1.

Additionaly, the disease spread speed will be influenced by theses modifiers :

- Thoughness of the dwarf.
- Healing conditions (bed ? hospital ? noise ?)
- Morale of the dwarf and personnality traits (happy and combative = improved recovery chances)

And of course, the quality of medicine and the skill of doctors. There's a lot to do on this topic...

[Dvergar]

Your system makes more sense, I was simply going for simple and dwarfy 

[Granite26]

Your system makes more sense, I was simply going for simple and dwarfy 

Oxymoron alert

[Rowanas]

I don't think 10 stages are required, maybe just 5 or 6. Otherwise you'll easily get into a state where a dwarf is dying faster than you can heal him, when really a good doctor dwarf attending to a patient should find it fairly easy to stabilise a dwarf on 6 or 7. Reducing the number of states but increasing the worsening period would keep balance while allowing doctors to be effective. All depends on how fast they work anyway, it may not be an issue.

[Dvergar]

Your system makes more sense, I was simply going for simple and dwarfy 

Oxymoron alert

Well... simple is probably preferable, and so is insane difficulty, therefore you have simple dwarfy or simple 'fun' 

[Neonivek]

We have a tissue system.

Instead of this rather extensive chart we should just have Infections spreading to different tissue layers and then to other body parts. The real issue should be when an infection gets to the inner organs.

[Dvergar]

Oh man I have really got to look at the raws.... a tissue system, never ever never seen it, shouldn't that be the first system damaged anyways?  no organs can be damaged without the tissue damaged first.

[Neonivek]

Oh man I have really got to look at the raws.... a tissue system, never ever never seen it, shouldn't that be the first system damaged anyways?  no organs can be damaged without the tissue damaged first.

The Skin is an Organ. Though I think the other organs get infected once the blood stream is infected.

[Kilo24]

The tissue system's in development, if you check the log.  It's not yet in a released version.

But though the skin may be damaged, injected poisons/stingers should be able to bypass it.  It might require a minor wound to the skin (which might be too minor to record.)  Allowing a disease "attack" to penetrate the skin too would be realistic (I seem to recall a few animals with plenty of pathogens in their mouths to supply in bite attacks).  But I really don't know the system at this point.

I'd guess that Toady One will have a wide variety of partially randomized diseases, but whether or not he wants to code in a placeholder before that is indeterminate.

[Dvergar]

When I wrote this I had gangerene and tetanus in mind, not like the flu!  I don't believe that even 5 stages are necessary, nor the system heavily dependant on dice rolls I had came up with. 

This gangerene-tetanus-bubonic plague disease left untreated would progress like:

Day 0:The infected limb with a "sores" status, giving a bad thought to anyone who sees it and the infected dwarf
Day 3:The sores would cover all outer limbs and skin, serriously dampening the dwarfs mood, slowing his movement speed severly and making him constantly tired (he sleeps every other day), his organs quickly take damage on rolls versus his strength and toughness, he takes damage over time at an exponential rate
Day 12-20 (variable):Dwarf incapacitated
Day 18-30: Death from organ failure

How you would treatment would work I don't know, but now you see I am not talking about invisible pathogens causing coughs.  I am talking about the rusty nail type of infection.

[Footkerchief]

Here's the raw preview for the next version.  The one you probably want to look at is Tissue Templates, but Bodies and Body Detail Plans are relevant too.  None of that stuff is set in stone though, and it's from back in December.

You should also check out the Venom and Health Care sections of the Dev List.  Bandages and other massive health care improvements are already in, and "wound infection and sepsis" might get implemented for the next release.

When infection does get implemented, it probably won't have a fixed number of stages.  Keep in mind that infection has to be applied to nonhumanoids as well.  It'll likely be highly dynamic, dependent on the physiology of the particular creature, and semi-randomized, which is what I think Neonivek was getting at.

[Dvergar]

Thanks Footkerchief, I guess I overlooked a lot of things, it really is true TDTTOE (The dev-team thinks of everything)

[Neonivek]

Don't feel too bad. If we absolutely hated anyone who posted something that is on the Devs then no one would bother posting.