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[alfie275]

Yeah pipes is a must.

[jaked122]

I don't know

The Dwarven Magma technology is more based around the fact that Magma is more common, stable, safe, and uniform then magma in real life then them having technology that defies the time period.

I am sure people in the medieval period could create magma forges as well if they could have a constant stream of uniformly heated toxicless magma forever. Unfortunately such as thing just doesn't exist and even if it did it would usually be surrounded by chaos detrimental to human life.

Iceland massive molten lava lakes!

[jaked122]

Boilers alone are not anachronistic in Dwarf Fortress -- even the Romans used them.

Actually useful steam power did not happen until much later, but the Aeolipile existed as far back as the first century AD.

I would suggest that they exist primarily as curiosities -- things players can have fun with, but which are too dangerous or time-consuming to really use effectively on a large scale.  This avoids larger setting problems while remaining true to history, and gives us a new way to destroy our fortresses or whatever.

... you forget that infinite amounts of technology were lost when the great library of Alexandria burned down, and they could have even had computers back then, but time destroyed all traces of their existence.

[Silverionmox]

Boilers alone are not anachronistic in Dwarf Fortress -- even the Romans used them.

Actually useful steam power did not happen until much later, but the Aeolipile existed as far back as the first century AD.

I would suggest that they exist primarily as curiosities -- things players can have fun with, but which are too dangerous or time-consuming to really use effectively on a large scale.  This avoids larger setting problems while remaining true to history, and gives us a new way to destroy our fortresses or whatever.

... you forget that infinite amounts of technology were lost when the great library of Alexandria burned down, and they could have even had computers back then, but time destroyed all traces of their existence.

Ah, but that still shows that that kind of technology was merely a toy for the rich, and didn't impact society very much. So we can keep that as a guideline.

[Vattic]

Do we not already have a number of non-period forms of magma technology which relies on it being a far more stable substance? Magma death traps and forges come to mind.

I would like to see weaponized steam, I'd build a steam tower where each floor consisted of grates and at the bottom I'd boil water steaming all those above, might make an interesting fortress entrance. Steamed Elf anyone?

However I don't think the vanilla game should have steam power with trains ant whatnot but wouldn't object to it being possible through modding.

[Starver]

Probably not going to happen.

<snip other stuff >

Metal rails seem vaguely modern, going by our favorite dubious source, but I'm not as opposed to them as I am to steam locomotives and light bulbs and nuclear reactors, since dwarves should be capable of using metal if it's around.

I was thinking of that quote (or one like it) when I was watching my miners/stone haulers/catapultists yomping over from one end of the map to the other, and pondering how a monorail would make that a bit more efficient.  (And of course wishing that I had an extinct lava tube that I could run it through, and cap with a sliding roof capable of at least temporarily fooling airborne spies.

But back to the 'reality': that'd be a stone-carved monorail/monogroove, if necessary, and with all this talk about steam pipes mirrored my own idle thoughts at the time about giving it an 'atmospheric engine' propulsion method.  (Though that then quickly led to a "steam catapult" idea, and ultimately led to to a 1400s-style MAC weapon to add to the (anti-)siege weaponry. 

But as it has been discussed before, so it shall be again.  You may take this merely as an idle musing along the lines of the idea, by pure coincidence, once again running amok through my mind at about the same time as the above was being posted... 

[jaked122]

Boilers alone are not anachronistic in Dwarf Fortress -- even the Romans used them.

Actually useful steam power did not happen until much later, but the Aeolipile existed as far back as the first century AD.

I would suggest that they exist primarily as curiosities -- things players can have fun with, but which are too dangerous or time-consuming to really use effectively on a large scale.  This avoids larger setting problems while remaining true to history, and gives us a new way to destroy our fortresses or whatever.

... you forget that infinite amounts of technology were lost when the great library of Alexandria burned down, and they could have even had computers back then, but time destroyed all traces of their existence.

Ah, but that still shows that that kind of technology was merely a toy for the rich, and didn't impact society very much. So we can keep that as a guideline.

again infinite amounts of tech were destroyed, there could have been many different useful steam engines that were lost in the fire.

[Silverionmox]

Boilers alone are not anachronistic in Dwarf Fortress -- even the Romans used them.

Actually useful steam power did not happen until much later, but the Aeolipile existed as far back as the first century AD.

I would suggest that they exist primarily as curiosities -- things players can have fun with, but which are too dangerous or time-consuming to really use effectively on a large scale.  This avoids larger setting problems while remaining true to history, and gives us a new way to destroy our fortresses or whatever.

... you forget that infinite amounts of technology were lost when the great library of Alexandria burned down, and they could have even had computers back then, but time destroyed all traces of their existence.

Ah, but that still shows that that kind of technology was merely a toy for the rich, and didn't impact society very much. So we can keep that as a guideline.

again infinite amounts of tech were destroyed, there could have been many different useful steam engines that were lost in the fire.

If they were useful, they would have been replicated outside the library. An interesting hook for anachronistic technologies are anomalies in coal and rock. There are quite some reports of chains, cups, nails, bells, etc. embedded in coal.

[chinkeeyong]

You just need 0s and 1s to program a computer, if you just have 0s, go for the 1 before attempting a 2!

Computer science fail.

On topic, I personally feel the kind of stuff players build in DF is already more suited to steampunk-type settings than the fantasy Tolkienesque world we're nominally playing in. Screw period accuracy.

[Starver]

again infinite amounts of tech were destroyed, there could have been many different useful steam engines that were lost in the fire.

I think you've applied a little bit of hyperbole there.  Though almost the first thought that crossed my mind was "Ah, so that's why it burned.  An infinite number of operating steam engines within a finite papyrus[1]-lined space would be asking for trouble," in the context of heat generation.  No wonder a conflagration[2] occured, although how they escaped the formation of a gravitational singularity I have no idea.


[1] Almost certainly.  'Twas apparently the Alexandrian monopoly on Cyperus papyrus that forced the development of vellum/etc by the non-Ptolemeic libraries of the era.  But it's been a while since I studied that, so ICBW.

[2] Back to reality, I do know that there wasn't ever a single moment of destruction.  Probably more a decline occuring over maybe 700 years or so of history punctuated with various noted incidents.

[Sowelu]

Motive power from steam is far too advanced for our setting, claiming that the existence of the Aeolipile justifies inclusion of something equivalent to a 19th century steam engine capable of pulling/pushing heavy objects is a huge stretch.  The Aeolipile is a mere toy that was never put too any practical use, the necessary understanding of pressure, Hydraulics and torque didn't even exist, not to mention material limitations in metals and most importantly seals and lubricants necessary to make a steam engine.  Muscle power was always simpler, cheaper and more practical.  Take for example the Helepolis, the largest siege tower ever built at 160 tons, it possessed a sophisticated capstan driven set of rollers to move it (along with a lot of pushing from behind), we can see clearly that engineering on large scales is within the power of the ancient Greeks but steam is not yet usable for motive force.  The only use for steam at this point are heating (pipes in floors), so a goblin killing 'death sauna' seems reasonable but nothing that's holding pressure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helepolis

Kind of off topic, but OH MAN. 

The Helepolis bore a fearsome complement of heavy armaments, with two 180-pound (82 kg) catapults, and one 60-pounder (27 kg) (classified by the weight of the projectiles they threw) on the first floor, three 60-pounders (27 kg) on the second, and two 30-pounders (14 kg) on each of the next five floors.

You know you're hosed when your enemy's MOBILE TOWER's armaments are described like a ship's.  That's 16 catapults, combined shot weight of 900lbs.

[Byakugan01]

I declare that siege tower dwarven to the extreme. We should be able to build something like that.