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[Toady One]

So I'm finally finished with the material, field template, material class, and material reaction editors.  Now you'll be able to do all kinds of strange things.  Like squeeze silver and turn it into gold, then light it on fire to turn it back into silver.  Then repeat.  Loads of fun, really.  You can give your chemical reactions new damage types...  or you can lump them under the old ones, like "burn" damage.

Next I get the creature files and other portions of the code up to speed, and then it's projectiles, followed by spell casting.
Then special abilities...  and then the full implementation of all of the horrible chemical reactions and stuff.

[Denim Sk8r]

With these chemical reactions will there be a light sensativity that could 'cause something to change at night time or daytime, and such?

If possible this could be useful in creating some sort of gargoyle race that turns to stone and become immobile under such conditions.

This race is of course going to be a BITCH to make. And most likely all would quickly perish during the day without caves something to hide in.

Just thinking about making them.....OUCH. Meh. I have alot of free time that I should use to study but don't.

Is anyone good at using the model editors at all? I don't think I've even tried. But, if I do want to make these, I'll need to give them wings, even if they serve no prupose now.

[Edit]: I decided that rather than trying to do it the hard way, I'll just opt for taking goblins and putting wings on them and changing their skin.....I'm a lazy 'mo.

[ January 27, 2003: Message edited by: Denim Sk8r ]

[Toady One]

Right now I have rubbing, pressure, fields (evil, etc.), materials and material classes involved with reactions...  I guess I'll need to put in light to do that shadow creature I mentioned...  well, light is a field technically, so maybe it already is in there, at least in spirit  The shadow creature reaction would look something like:

Shadow Material (Reagent) +
Light => No products

And you could give the damage a name like "sun burned".  He he he...  for the gargoyle maybe it would be like

Gargoyle skin (Reagent) +
Sunlight => Gargoyle stone (Product)...  

somehow it would have to know that this is not "damage"...  ie, its not like the gargoyle's skin was burned into ash, just turned to stone...
And you'd also need something harder to code like

Gargoyle stone (reagent) =>
Gargoyle skin (in the absence of sunlight)...

Maybe my reaction structures need to be enlarged to include things like ambient conditions...  or change how amounts work.  Right now it says it needs some amount of a reagent (which is consumed) or some amount of a catalyst (which is not consumed) to make some amount of a product (you can have multiple reagents, etc.).  Maybe it should say instead you need to have either above or below an amount of a reagent...  so that in low light situations the reaction runs one way, and in high light situations the reaction runs the other way.  More examples would help iron this out...  keep thinking of things...  I need to get back to the other things I'm coding, but I'll continue to adjust the reaction structures as we think of more things to accommmmmmodate.

Gargoyles could probably be done fairly quickly off of orcs or kobolds...  the skin would just need to be given those reactions and wings would need to be drawn (which would suck).

I can probably call Armok educational software now, since the editors hone analytical problem-solving skills and teach people how to cope with adversity.

The model editor isn't so bad (from my warped perspective).  The trickiest part by far is the gluing vertices.  That part is arbitrary.  I need to add a preview frame or there's really no hope outside of trial and error (as...  was it Harlander?...  suggested).  If you look really close you'll notice that giant ant mandibles are still incorrect...  it's tricky, especially when it then rotates your creature's parts around to fit its stance...  then the gluing vertices can be trashed...  the system doesn't work all that well.

[Denim Sk8r]

Well, I plan on playing with the model editors in the next few days to figure them out.  And then, if the sunlight thing doesn't work quite correctly at this point, I'll come up with a different condition for them for a while or leave it off entirely.

But I do hope to make the wings even if it is a BITCH, I'll just start off trying to successfully make a cube or pyramid or something first that actually works, then expand off of that to get used to things.

Because wings are fun. We need like, little baby Wingaling dragons, and um.......winged....uh, other things could always use wings, probably. Well, they're just for looks right now. But when flying is implemented, you'll all be sorry!

[Edit] Thinking about this wing model, I came up with two main ways to do it. At the moment I'm thinking of "bat-like" wings, rather then like bird or insect wings.

1) The entire wing is one unit.
Problems: very difficult model to create
         doesn't really make much sense in the way that the bone and muscle layers would be throughout the whole system
         it's one piece so it has limited movement, can't bend in the middle

2) The wing is made out of several pieces
Bonus:    much easier model to make
         wing can bend in the middle
         more customizable
Problems: you can only attach body parts at one point to another body part. this makes it exceedingly difficult to properly attach the skin flaps between the main appendage areas as it can only be done at one point when it would need to connect to two parts each in a line. I don't forsee any simple way of fixing this at any time in the near future as I'm sure the re-code would make most people's heads explode into firey infernos of death.

I will more than likely model them the second way to get used to the model editor, then if I'm feeling ambitious, model the first way to proove my mastery on the concept. For the current system, I believe the first would be more useable because of it's simplicity in all ways except for modeling, but the second will ultimately be the correct way.

[ January 27, 2003: Message edited by: Denim Sk8r ]

[Toady One]

I've fixed up reactions enough to work for the things we've mentioned I think...

That model editor problem is nasty though...  Maybe when I get to big toads it'll happen, since they have webbed feet, and I'll also want some movement in their jaws and mouths so they can gobble stuff up in style...  that'll require most of the wing problems to be fixed.  Not sure when I'm doing that...  at the latest, when I add water, which is right before flying.

With the reaction I just wrote up, the poor little shadow creature will burst into flames within 10 seconds of being exposed to roughly 40% lighting or above, ie

1 unit shadow (reagent) + 1 unit light (catalyst) => 1 unit flame (product)

every 10 seconds.  If you want, you can change the "10 seconds" to "instantaneous" or you can add on "instantaneous" but with "chance = 1000/10000" so that the time when it pops into flame will be random.  Right now, I'm just looking for a slow predictable burn.

[Denim Sk8r]

Well, in any case. I've looked over the model editors and have gotten the jist of what to do.

The Glue-In Vertice section is a bit troubling. In order to have the wings added on to the human upper-body section, we need to define such attechment points for the "Back Upper Left" and "Back Upper Right" sections. I do believe that I can do this. If I do, I'll send in the re-vamped human_upperbody file so that the wings can attach properly for other people. Or, you can add other things to that position.

I think I can do this properly if I can manage to find which vertices are the ones specified in those areas.

In any case the important part to altering them correctly is this. It would seem to me that the important part of being exposed to sunlight is less the fact that their skin turns to stone, but more that they become immobile or lose all their energy, rather than just gaining really hard skin, which would prove to be very useful. How could this be done.

On a side note, I believe that the best way to undo the effect is to have the reactions such that skin to stone is caused by sunlight at a greater rate than stone to skin is caused by exposure to air.

[Edit]: I was succesfully able to add the new sections for attachment, so once I make the wings, I can put them in the right spot. So, if anyone needs an area on this body part to attach things but it doesn't exist and you can't figure out the editor, tell me and I'll put it on and give it to you.

[ January 27, 2003: Message edited by: Denim Sk8r ]

[Toady One]

I could make creatures with non-flexible body tissues unable to move in general.  Then things like "stone skin" spells would have to be complemented by a flexibility modification to the material, or you'd have to leave the moving joint skin flesh or something...

I'll have to add some kind of greater physiology to creatures if the gargoyle is simply to lose its energy in the light...  this should be done for a variety of reasons -- just to make nocturnal/diurnal animals, but I'm not sure when I'll have time.

In general, it'll be asking a lot of the computer to oppose reactions to each other like that...  I mean, if you do it, then if the game is just going through the reactions one by one, at certain time segments the gargoyle would have skin, and at others it would be stone...  but the stone would happen more often.  This is because the time units are discrete...  if one reaction rate is an integer multiple of another, this won't be a problem if the skin to stone reaction is second in the reaction list, but it'll still happen if that reaction is first.  To get around that nonsense, you'd have to make the game think about the totality of possible reactions, which is probably very hard.  I guess it could look at every eligible reagent, and then assign it to the fastest active reaction?  But this probably wouldn't work either, since you wouldn't want the fastest reactions to totally win in all cases.  In some cases you want it the first way, and some the second...  Maybe it's best just to leave it with skin to stone occurring at some threshold light level, and stone to skin occurring below that level.  Then the game will never have to ask which one is active.  This is possible the way I have the structures now.  Then again...  you Should be able to oppose reactions like you suggest.  Maybe there should be some kind of flag for it.

[ January 27, 2003: Message edited by: Toady One ]

Actually, if the exposure to air was important (like you turn the thing into stone, and then bury it, so it can't ever turn back), you could throw that in like:

Stone + Air + No Light = Skin
Skin + Light = Stone

[ January 27, 2003: Message edited by: Toady One ]

[Denim Sk8r]

I've finished and submitted the human_upperbody2 and wing model files, I've tried them on humans and it looks fine. Haven't used on anything else. My insomnia proved to be good for the sake of Armok tonight..........and probably bad for me in other ways somehow, but I'm not a doctor so I have no idea.

[Edit] I'm aware that the wing file's patern coloring looks gross and unnatural, that's because I have a very hard time seeing the triangles at all in the model editor, if there could be some sort of zoom function out into this it would be helpful.

[ January 28, 2003: Message edited by: Denim Sk8r ]

[spelguru]

Hey, I got a really small thing you could add: A random creature generator! You just make the first thing, choosing how many bodies, heads, arms and legs the creature will have, then a random creature is generated. Then you can either accept it, alter it or make a new random.

Good idea huh?

[Denim Sk8r]

We already have that implemented.....

When making a new creature specify the Type as Fully Specified
then add the Creature form file stock
next Creature motif file to whatever you want to create...mammal, reptile, etc.

To make different default forms, design new motifs.

[Toady One]

I never actually messed around with the random creature maker much...  and my file doesn't compile now...  anyway, has anybody made a really messed up form (like several heads, arms, bodies, etc.) and just made a mammal with it or something?  As Denim says, all you'd have to do is make a new creature and use your twisted form file with it.  Does it look... like... at all okay?  I know the 6 legged creatures don't work right.  None of it does, probably.

[spelguru]

According to the choose race screen my creature did not have a body... and when the game started the game crashed... I will try again though...