Session Start: Sun Aug 29 23:21:09 2004
*** Now talking in #bay12games
*** Topic is '
www.bay12games.com | Armok release "You Finally Aren't Naked" out now:
http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000254'
*** Set by zip on Thu Aug 26 17:13:55
<Zonk> wow
*** Zonk[slerping] is now known as Zonk
<Zonk> everybody's asleep here? :-)
*** t[food] is now known as ToadyOne
<ToadyOne> woot
<ToadyOne> just got back
<ToadyOne> zip is at the pub
<ToadyOne> TT is fixing cars
<Zonk> the great toad has awaken!
<Zonk> all hail him
<Zonk> Fixing cars?
<Zonk> strange
<Zonk> By the way...did you read my bug repot about mass?
<ToadyOne> well, changing a battery
<ToadyOne> yeah
<Zonk> also..another bug is that heat cone is hard to use...it's hard to use to set trees aflame..and when you do it it crashes after some time.
<Zonk> still, it's a GREAT version
<ToadyOne> easy to fix
<ToadyOne> it just counts it once for each inventory contact
<ToadyOne> instead of making a list of the items
<ToadyOne> and adding them up after
<Zonk> Also, 2 things:you REALLY must delete my old armok creatures, since I'm ashamed to have created them...I was about 13 years old at that time :-)
<ToadyOne> might just be that there are so many twigs and things -- I'll make a note
<ToadyOne> I think I'm going to put out a little character generator in a few weeks
<ToadyOne> whenever I can get to it
<ToadyOne> he he he he. okay, I'll take them down.
<Zonk> By the way....aren't splinters from detonation supposed to hurt more?
<ToadyOne> does the drow work?
<Zonk> the drow works fine.
<ToadyOne> there was an incapatibility with the old one
<Zonk> it's the bovine and the giants that are ugly.
<ToadyOne> because the form node thingies weren't defined
<ToadyOne> only caused a problem in the new release
<Zonk> actually, the bovine died in the moment the game started I think. It was cool otherwise.
<ToadyOne> they'd hurt more if they moved at the proper speed
<ToadyOne> but you see how the splinters fly very slow
<ToadyOne> he he he
<ToadyOne> splinters would probably shoot off very far if the thing detonated
<Zonk> Also..maybe it's because I formatted my computer but...Is there supposed to be a specific font for playing armok?
<Zonk> It has some sizing problems...
<Zonk> Nothing really bad, but it looks ugly. I tried changing the values in the options file but it still can't get the perfect ones
<ToadyOne> fonts are a huge problem
<ToadyOne> I have my own graphics file
<ToadyOne> if you try to use pregenerated windows font
<ToadyOne> it goes really slow on some older video cards
<Zonk> Understood.
<ToadyOne> the "old_text" option should let you use those fonts
<Zonk> Also, another little request...COuld you set it so that death NOES NOT reset the material?
<Zonk> like...if I turn a tree to stone and then detonate it..I get some stone to work with!
<ToadyOne> which material?
<ToadyOne> I could look into it -- I'm not sure what the mechanics of that are
<ToadyOne> might be the same thing that causes the skin to change to default species color
<ToadyOne> like you can be a black guy, but when you die you become tan
<Zonk> altough stone splinters might cause MORE damage than wooden ones, of course
<ToadyOne> because tan is the default human color
<Zonk> toadyone:i noticed this "dead people change color"too
<ToadyOne> just a matter of saving texture memory
* Zonk nods
<ToadyOne> I have to program a bit of a work around, but they should have proper color/mats when I do that
<Zonk> Also...another things I tested.
<Zonk> I managed to build 'shadow pants'...When I used them in sunlight, they did not burn.
<Zonk> (they did not become...'hot pants''
<ToadyOne> hrm. I think items might not be placed in the reaction code, other than melting
<ToadyOne> he he he
<ToadyOne> I read your log with zip
<ToadyOne> there were other puns
<ToadyOne> other... things
<Zonk> It's a shame I haven't logged the conversation with 'and which parts go trough which holes'
<Zonk> I'm logging now, of coruse
<Zonk> I also read your talk with your brother :-)
<ToadyOne> it was probably degenerate
<Zonk> Just take no offense when I said that you are a family of twisted monsters because you are toad-like and he only has 3 toes :-)
<Zonk> YOu know, I begin to think that Armok might REALLY become a decent, playable game, enjoyable by normal people.
<Zonk> After 4 years of my life spent thinking about it...
<ToadyOne> yeah, I've been thinking about it for like 11
<ToadyOne> it definitely has potential
<ToadyOne> it is just a grueling process
<ToadyOne> three toe is from a guinea pig
<ToadyOne> they have three toes
<Zonk> About twisted families of monsters...Will there be an 'npc creator'for universes?
<Zonk> to create important adventures/npcs/rulers?
<Zonk> (but also unique dragons/demons)?
<ToadyOne> yeah -- there's got to be
<ToadyOne> I imagine it will be like the species editor
<ToadyOne> but with more options
<Zonk> Also...anotehr thing. You mentioned the choiche of startign entity in char generation.
<ToadyOne> and you can hide the bodypart stuff if you don't care
<ToadyOne> like just do the sizing and deformations
<ToadyOne> to make him look how you want
<Zonk> Would it be possible having some 'default'entities like 'warrior's guild'that give you some skills and base equipment?
<ToadyOne> then set up the personality
<Zonk> (of course only for testing)
<ToadyOne> yeah.
<ToadyOne> well, hopefully the entities would have those choices in the end
<ToadyOne> so each civ would have the kinds of professions that are normal too it
<ToadyOne> and you could start as a beginner in one
<ToadyOne> or you can start as an outsider
<Zonk> Exactly what I said.
<ToadyOne> but in the beginning
<ToadyOne> yeah, before that
<ToadyOne> but I mean, it's not just testing
<ToadyOne> that's how the games probably going to turn out
<Zonk> Then whe will have even more complex entities, like royal(or not?)families
<ToadyOne> I think it seems sensible
<ToadyOne> maybe as late as dead parents...
<Zonk> the jach.jpg remembers me the late Cthulu :-)
<ToadyOne> is that what the plan says?
<Zonk> Dunno. The plan files I have saved are about 1 year old
<ToadyOne> I get lost in my own plans...
<ToadyOne> that's why I write things down
<ToadyOne> he he
<ToadyOne> that is Faustus "ThreeToe"
<ToadyOne> ThreeToe's former guinea pig
<ToadyOne> lemme see...
<Zonk> Faustus has bloodshoot eyes...scary.
<ToadyOne> he was just interested in food
<ToadyOne> he made a high-pitched sonar noise
<ToadyOne> when he wanted carrots
<ToadyOne> dead parents:
<ToadyOne> //**Finish Character Generation Interface
<ToadyOne> //**More Player History Events + Realizations
<ToadyOne> //**Player Starting Location and Situation
<Zonk> ToadyOne:just interested in food...another scary phrase!
<ToadyOne> that last bit is the family stuff
<Zonk> History Events need to be decent... not just curses from the gods!
<ToadyOne> but i can do a bit before then
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<ToadyOne> yeah. it should actually read like a life story in the end
<Zonk> Like...'in your youth you lost an eye' but could also be 'on your birth you where blessed by the local priest'
<ToadyOne> not like some kind of retarded greek tragedy
<ToadyOne> written by a 4 year old
<Zonk> like, you could even have 'fates'...of course, more detailed than the TOME ones.
<ToadyOne> yeah, the plot depth will be up to the player, I hope
<ToadyOne> I'm going to use dwarves to practice random plot generation
<Zonk> Will there be an option for starting age?
<ToadyOne> it'll be hard to make it not sound stupid
<ToadyOne> I suppose there could be -- it has to inject you into the old universe files
<ToadyOne> if you are too old, it might seem weird
<ToadyOne> but I guess it's not a huge problem
<Zonk> I think it will be hard to implement aging for every species...
<ToadyOne> yeah, I'll need a generic formula for most
<Zonk> A good way might be to allow 'types of agings'...like for humand and other hmanoids it's based on overall size
<Zonk> while for dragons, demons(and wine)aging is good because it makes them become more powerful.
<Zonk> By the way...I have been experimenting with species editor...And potential and difficulty...what's the difference between 'rust' and 'demote'speed?
<ToadyOne> but grapes themselves don't like it much
<ToadyOne> rust is just a temporary minus you can work off
<ToadyOne> demot speed is how much rust it takes for a full demotion (permanent)
<ToadyOne> so, you can imagine a creature
<ToadyOne> that never demots
<ToadyOne> but can become rusty quickly
<Zonk> Are they currently implemented?
<ToadyOne> so it can come back and realize it's full potential
<ToadyOne> yeah, I think they are
<ToadyOne> demot might be a little hairy
<ToadyOne> rust is in
<ToadyOne> doesn't talk about it though I don't think
<Zonk> Also..Don't you think that a potential of 50 for Strength in humans is low?
<ToadyOne> my interface is alway way behind
<Zonk> Altough probably at some points in Strength training mass increases too...
<Zonk> since strength is relative to mass...strength training increases mass AND strength?..umh..confusing
<ToadyOne> probably is a bit low. my governor, arnold, was a big guy
<ToadyOne> probably many times my strength
<Zonk> Wow...You live in California? :-)
<ToadyOne> yeah
<Zonk> He still is a big buy, altough he's probably rusted a bit.
<ToadyOne> near san francisco
<ToadyOne> yeah, but the makeup might keep his mass the same
<Zonk> of course dexterity and endurance are harder to raise with training...especially dexterity from what I know
<ToadyOne> I guess it depends on what dexterity is
<ToadyOne> people can improve their coordination
<ToadyOne> and their flexibility
<ToadyOne> but I might have coord. as a skill...
<Zonk> possible.
<ToadyOne> with dexterity the body-based component of it
<ToadyOne> it's kind of ill-determined now
*** TT[fixingCars] is now known as ThreeToe
<Zonk> Like we might have weightlifting, a skill that allows to lift weights in certain, more efficient ways
<ThreeToe> hey Zonk!
<Zonk> or 'throwing', another skill that increases the effect of strength/dexterity
<Zonk> hey 3toe!
<Zonk> 3toe:You know...I still remeber the story you wrote about the adventures of a certain 'steel man' :-)
<ThreeToe> thanks for recommending this chatroom, i dont think i would have started programming again without it
<Zonk> Is it my impression or even with a starting skill of 100 in magic...considered average...the ranges/radiuses for spells are a bit small?
<Zonk> :-)
<ThreeToe> i forgot that story :d
<ToadyOne> Didn't I write that?
<ToadyOne> I remember writing the song.
<Zonk> yes
<ThreeToe> i mean
<ToadyOne> the flight release was to do all of that stuff
<ToadyOne> I wanted to do wrestling before climbing
<Zonk> Then these pesky humans will climb my titan and put a sword in my jugular!that's bad! :-)
<ToadyOne> because it uses a lot of the same things
<Zonk> flight with stomping?that's good.
<Zonk> so we can have..aerial bombing!
<ToadyOne> or even just simple tree climbing
<Zonk> immaggine a flying titan who can drop huge boulders on a town buildings...
<ToadyOne> he he he
<ToadyOne> flying creatures will be kind of hard
<ToadyOne> only a little bit of the map is loaded
<ToadyOne> so they'll fly off the map and back again
<ToadyOne> a lot
<Zonk> Umh..an human is whitstanding my blows...strange
<ToadyOne> I haven't gone through and checked all the numbers... just no reason to bother yet
<ToadyOne> most things don't make any sense
<Zonk> Okay...got the 69 kg corpse from the human after detonating his jugular...now i'm throwing it
<Zonk> Funyn!
<Zonk> At the second try, I hit a tree with it
<Zonk> It flew about the same distanec as the tree
<ToadyOne> he he
<Zonk> I set a tree as a target...The i ran away...very away.. I threw the body...It must have flew a mile or more!I mean...I passed SEVERAL screens... That's a world record! It's a shame the Olympics ended a few hours ago
<Zonk> And I managed to keep it up, following the projectile in mid flight!
<Zonk> So, projectile need to be way faster
<ToadyOne> he he
<Zonk> About that...I know it sounds stupid...but when you do entities and so on...and quests...
<Zonk> could you have something like little sports competition so we can test physics/weights/various things and at same time win prized?
<Zonk> i mean competitions in game, of course...like true trunk-tossing
<Zonk> another bug:if you use an arrow to hit something, it gets ruined, but items like corpses don't
<ToadyOne> he he he...
<ToadyOne> I dunno how far allow scripting will be
<ToadyOne> yeah, you can't damage corpses yet
<ToadyOne> since they have real bodies
<ToadyOne> it would take a harder bit of code
<Zonk> Some simple things could be running and throwing.
<ToadyOne> I haven't done yet
<Zonk> You could cheat with magic, of course.
<Zonk> Does throwing and damage differentiate for the form of the item?
<ToadyOne> what do you mean?
<ToadyOne> there's no air resistance or anything
<Zonk> For example...If I hit a monster with two items...and one is a blade and the other is blunt...is there a difference?
<Zonk> other than the type of damage?
<ToadyOne> the edge multiples the damage
<ToadyOne> and it checks the lengths and things
<ToadyOne> and the type of damage influences bleeding and severing
<Zonk> Multiplies the daamge?remembers me of gurps impaling/cutting
<Zonk> actually..what is 'cellular damage'?
<ToadyOne> I think it does something like force * edge
<Zonk> I always thought it was damage caused by things like acids or fire...
<ToadyOne> that is just supposed to be the damage you get from not breathing/having a liver
<ToadyOne> those things have to kill you
<Zonk> Understood...similar to cancrene, then...or insufficient body functions.
<ToadyOne> it's like high toxicity of blood or lack of oxygen
<ToadyOne> yeah
<ToadyOne> it's how rot spells might work
<Zonk> Anyway...when are senses going in?
<Zonk> So I might make the eyes tissue of my drow start to SLOWLY burn/itch in sunlight?
<Zonk> (i could do it now but being blind seems to have no game effect)
<ToadyOne> god I dunno
<ToadyOne> somewhere in there
<ToadyOne> I can add stuff whenever really
<ToadyOne> the fans need to prioritize!
<ToadyOne> I don't care too much
<Zonk> of course.
<ToadyOne> there are certain things that come before other things
<Zonk> How will you simulate blinding?the screen would just become blacker and blacker?
<Zonk> toadyone :of course...we had magic before clothing :-)
<ToadyOne> well, that, but I was thinking of showing pulses of color for sounds and feelings
<ToadyOne> so you can still kind of make your way around
<ToadyOne> blind people aren't completely helpless
<Zonk> Right.
<ToadyOne> it's like the bible! magic before clothing...
<Zonk> And I remember that materials have values like taste and smell.
<Zonk> lol
<ToadyOne> but there are no fig trees
<Zonk> well..you can build pants made from generic trees
<ToadyOne> and you'd better. guilt is a hard enemy to overcome.
<Zonk> Then, again, we need no fig trees as all characters lack certain...attributes?
<Zonk> And I don't mean stats :-)
<Zonk> And womans have horrible faces
<ToadyOne> well, not all women are cute
<ToadyOne> I need to have the big round biker chicks and stuff
<ToadyOne> this isn't a regular fantasy rpg
<Zonk> Ogresses
<Zonk> Exactly!
<Zonk> So no stereotypes, like beautiful women warriors and so on.
<Zonk> hell...I think when there is char generation I will create an HORRIBLE warrior full of scars!
<ToadyOne> that's right
<Zonk> I might call him 'scarface' or something.
<ToadyOne> he he he.
<ToadyOne> of course, this initial character generation will only let you go so far
<ToadyOne> I can't do much in two weeks
<Zonk> YOu mean it won't allow scars?that's right.
<ToadyOne> just let you interact with the skin color and deformations
<ToadyOne> the simple stuff
<Zonk> But the deformations are good enough.
<ToadyOne> entities won't even exist
<Zonk> And beards and hair?
<Zonk> (but no bearded women until we create dwarves, please!)
<ToadyOne> he he
<ToadyOne> I'd have to add some hair deformations, I haven't done any of that yet
<ToadyOne> do all men have beards now? I don't remember
* Zonk has a beard since he was 11...
<Zonk> Also, you could add visible hair in other places...like armpits
<Zonk> So spelguru can have some fun with his perveted fire spells!
<Zonk> Toadyone:all men have a strange beard now.
<Zonk> in the editor it seems there are models for moustaches and full beards.
<Zonk> I also hope you might be able to edit the height/weight of your character...
<Zonk> I suppose that might bring some disadvantages, too.
<ToadyOne> armor would probably be harder to find and more expensive if you always choose the biggest size
<Zonk> Yes, and if you do it yourself it would take more material.
<ToadyOne> once it makes the items fit right
<Zonk> Plus, you would have problems in caves.
<ToadyOne> just like poor people with giant feet
<Zonk> I think the tallest human in the real world was 12' feet tall
<ToadyOne> and the dragon would think of you as a more filling meal
*** TT[chess] is now known as ThreeToe
<Zonk> YOu could walk hunched over...and that would cause cellular damage to your spine, until you become crippled for life!
<ToadyOne> there was that one guy with a genetic disorder... he's 30 and still growing
<Zonk> ToadyOne:30 and still growing?
<Zonk> scary
<ToadyOne> something like that
<ToadyOne> he lives in eastern europe
<Zonk> probably a problem with hormones
<Zonk> hormones cause all sorts of funny thing, especially testosterone! It's BAD to have to shave every 2 days to look presentable
<ToadyOne> I think his pituitary gland never told him he left puberty
<Zonk> Every day I met someone(especially females)they tell me I look about 20-30. In my first day at high school..they tought I was the FATHER of one of the boys! Scary!
<ToadyOne> damn!
<ToadyOne> do you have a dwarf beard?
<Zonk> no
<ToadyOne> hairy back and arms?
<Zonk> yes
<ToadyOne> ageless eyes of vast intelligence and experience?
<Zonk> my beard doesn't grow more than 4-5 centimeters after a month...
<Zonk> "ageless eyes of vast intelligence and experience?
<Zonk> that sounds good.
<Zonk> I suppose i'm smarter than a normal 16-years-old.
<Zonk> If I weren't, I would prefer playing Quake and Half-life to Armok, don't you think?
<ToadyOne> he he he
<ToadyOne> or even normal 30 year olds
<Zonk> lol
<ToadyOne> who vote
<Zonk> you are 26,If I remember well...Your brother is older,right?
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*** zip|woek is now known as zip
<zip> yo all
<Zonk> hello zip.
<ToadyOne> TT is 29
<ToadyOne> yerg
<Zonk> 29?that's approaching 30...
<zip> ling
<Zonk> By the way...What about posting this BIG log on the forum?
<Zonk> On a new topic(or I could use the "Bay 12 Channel
<Zonk> one)
<ToadyOne> yeah, feel free to post whatever you want
<Zonk> good.
<Zonk> There are people who like to post POETRY on your forum, you know? :-)
<ThreeToe> hehehe
<ToadyOne> you should post some
<Zonk> note:make a random art generator for when we will have entities. We need kobold dung statues!
<ToadyOne> it would be easy to do better
<Zonk> (actually, I heard statues aren't hard to implement, they are similar to clothes)
<ToadyOne> he he he. it's on the list actually
<ToadyOne> yeah, same thing really
<ThreeToe> you dont have dung material yet?
<ToadyOne> statues of specific people is harder
<ToadyOne> nah, no intestines
<ToadyOne> no stomach
<ToadyOne> no pancreas
<Zonk> No interal organs.
<Zonk> Internal
<ThreeToe> you need pancreas for dung?
<Zonk> Just the primary body parts...sounds easy.
<ToadyOne> well, it helps digest a bit
<Zonk> ThreeTOe:kobold dung statues was just an example.
<Zonk> Yo could have solid blood statues...
<ThreeToe> thought that was for diabetis?
<Zonk> or even..(shudders)...statues made of stone
<Zonk> Or from bone, and so on.
<ThreeToe> or steel
<Zonk> I think it would be easy to transform a 'statue'item into a creature, like a golem, right?
<ThreeToe> that could kill you
<Zonk> with the proper spells and rituals
<ToadyOne> it would be a little hard
<Zonk> you might just have to give it a 'primitive'soul and it could obey your orders...think about creating a Frankenstein monster by sewing various body parts :-)
<ToadyOne> because it would need to point back to a species definition right now
<ToadyOne> and there wouldn't be one ready for it
<Zonk> ToadyOne:Well, we(we = you)can work on that.
<ToadyOne> I'm going to try to add extra body parts to lead into completely species-independent bodies
<ToadyOne> but it is long journey
<ThreeToe> do you do any programming zonk?
<Zonk> ThreeToe:I tried some C++...It's hard but with time I should learn.
<Zonk> We should also study it at school.
<Zonk> I managed to create something liek a program to calculate Archimedes'push...I could have used EXCEL and did 1/10 of the work, but it was fun.
<Zonk> And I gave some gazes to the source codes of tome
<Zonk> Anyway, I think I have to quit in a few minutes
<ThreeToe> i learned from BASIC- i dont think they make that anymore
<ToadyOne> best not to look at my code. it is bad learning material, cuz it sucks
<ToadyOne> what time is it over there?
<ToadyOne> 2 am?
<ToadyOne> 1 am?
<Zonk> It's about 1.37
<Zonk> :-)
<ToadyOne> zip + 1
<ToadyOne> me + 9
<zip> yup
<Zonk> Anyway, thanks for the conversation and everything, and for listening to my strange but useful rants and ideas
* Zonk waves
<Zonk> I'm posting the log on the forum
*** Disconnected
Session Close: Mon Aug 30 01:38:50 2004
Author
Topic: A crazy conversation on #bay12games (Read 14789 times)