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[Matias]

I noticed that when making steel and pig iron one needs limestone. It is correct that when making steel one needs some chalk. I'd want to see that in following verions, also dolomite (way over 50 % of chalk) and marble (sometimes even higher percentage of chalk than in limestone) could be used. Using marble this way is of course not very cost effective, but when there is an urgent need, one must use what ever methods necessary... Dolomite chalk is very widely used as an additive in farming and it is far more common stone than limestone. It's is not as pure, but you can manage with it.

-Matias

[Savok]

No. Read The Wiki

[irmo]

quote:Originally posted by Savok:
<STRONG>No. Read The Wiki</STRONG>

Don't be an asshole.

Matias is right.  Currently the game requires limestone, but since chalk and marble are chemically the same stuff, and dolomite is very close, they should all be usable in steel furnaces.

[Tamren]

Makes sense. And a change like this will eb certainly needed seeing as cave rivers are no longer guaranteed and they are probably not all line with limestone.

[Toady One]

This is already in for marble and chalk.  I didn't know about dolomite.  Wiki has it as a flux when other rocks aren't available, so perhaps using dolomite should later have a penalty of some kind, but I'm allowing it as a flux for now.  I also allowed calcite as a flux, though I'm not sure if that's accurate.  Seems like it should work, based on the chemical formula.

In general, the smelter now uses reactions.  A reaction raw can have the following, for example:

[REAGENT:1:REACTION_CLASS:FLUX]

and the corresponding minerals would have

[REACTION_CLASS:FLUX]

in their definitions.  The token "FLUX" has no other game content, and you can add new tokens as you like.  The idea is eventually to extend the system to alchemy and so on, altering it as necessary.

[Tamren]

Thats interesting, could that system be expanded in such a way to cover alloys as well?

In which case making bronze would not be a simply matter of 1+1=2, it would be because tin and copper combine in such a way to produce a new material. Instead of just copper with tin bits in it. That way we would be able to make things like stainless steel, or different types of brass.

[Felix the Cat]

I'll be happy when I can finally make pewter goblets for my dwarves to drink from!  

[Toady One]

Yeah, it already covers alloys, though it's not perfect by any means.  The main issues are using bars vs. using ores, which I've handled in a clunky way, and the fact that many alloys use something like 99% of one metal and 1% of another (which I handled by using 3:1 ratios and so on, which is nowhere near correct).  I added many new alloys, although for some weird reason pewter wasn't on any of the lists I was using and I forgot about it.  This oversight has now been rectified.  So yeah, it's not entirely satisfying now, but there's now room to move there and I can fix it up over time, especially when we start the basic (al)chemical stuff.  A fantasy game such as DF can't maintain its dignity for long without acid, after all.

[ September 06, 2007: Message edited by: Toady One ]

[Gaulgath]

quote:A fantasy game such as DF can't be maintain its dignity for long without acid, after all.

*Grins at thoughts of evil possibilities*

[Tamren]

Hot damn! I just realized if you added acid, it would also make possible the flooding of fortresses, WITH ACID!

Magma flooded world my ass, we have a new apocalypse on the horizon!  

[Shades]

quote:Originally posted by Tamren:
<STRONG>Hot damn! I just realized if you added acid, it would also make possible the flooding of fortresses, WITH ACID!
</STRONG>

What an re-smooth all my floors after the acid dissolves bits of it? no thanks

[Markavian]

quote:Originally posted by Toady One:
<STRONG>..the fact that many alloys use something like 99% of one metal and 1% of another (which I handled by using 3:1 ratios and so on, which is nowhere near correct).[ September 06, 2007: Message edited by: Toady One ]</STRONG>

When you get it to, why not give the option to grind a single ore or metal bar into power, say '30' units. That way, the components for alloys could be more realisticly balanced with single/multiple doses of a specific powder. I could see this being useful for alchemy as well.

Thought: More realism for alloys sounds great, but could get complicated/confusing quickly, with a reliance on multiple buildings. For new starters; the basic metal types (copper, iron, bronze?, brass?, silver, gold) may want to be kept as they are, requiring a single ore (or two ores) and a smelter to produce. (Bronze is a useful weapon material early on at the moment).

[Haedrian]

quote:Originally posted by Tamren:
<STRONG>Hot damn! I just realized if you added acid, it would also make possible the flooding of fortresses, WITH ACID!</STRONG>

HCl + CaCO3 -> H2O + CO2 + CaCl

Miner cancels task; choking to death on fumes

[mickel]

Now we just need some nice explosives too. Why separate mining and warfare? Let's celebrate the Battle of Messines!

I for one have long wanted to see some real military engineering in wargames, and if stereotypical dwarves are anything, they're military engineers.