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[inaluct]

Recently, a Chinese man won an auction for some bronze statues stolen from China during the Opium Wars. Now, he refuses to pay, to get a point across.

What do you guys think should happen? Do you think the statues should be given back to China? They're really ugly statues. I don't see why anyone would pay 15 million Euros for such ugly statues.

This sort of thing isn't uncommon. What are your general views on returning stolen art?

[Strife26]

If the chinese guy can prove that it was his, it should revert to him, if my expereince with World War II aftermath is right the experience should work like this:


Jewish family collects artwork,
Nazis take stuff.
Nazis sell stuff/ have it stolen
Artwork is sold to random person
random person  sells artwork (legally) to RP B.

<Procede to random person K.>

Relation of original Jewish family discovers artwork.
They sue.
International court gives stuff to Jewish family.
Legal buyers try to trace who they bought the art from.
String of lawsuits start (K sues J sues I).
Someone is unable to find the previous holder of the art (H died and left no hiers).
Someone loses out on all the money (I in this case)

(Just replace Nazi with Brit, and Jew with Chinese man)

We read about a case of a painting worth a few million in a History class we took.


Of course, the statue (heh) of limitations should get involved (does it apply to international affairs though) too.

[mainiac]

There needs to be a statue of limitations to keep things from getting out of hand.  But if you find those who profited directly (stole or inherited), seems fair enough to take the art back.  Most of the time, it's not simple though, so we need to remember the golden rule "don't be a dick."  That goes for both sides.

On the one hand, stolen.  On the other hand, a long freaking time and a cultural revolution stand between then and now.  So I don't know enough.  Who had the art before the auction?  Museum?  Descendant of the thief?

[Strife26]

There needs to be a statue of limitations to keep things from getting out of hand.  But if you find those who profited directly (stole or inherited), seems fair enough to take the art back.  Most of the time, it's not simple though, so we need to remember the golden rule "don't be a dick."  That goes for both sides.

But we're talking about France and China here. The real solution is France will ignore the guy (he hasn't actually got the statues).
The real lesson, is that China shouldn't try to stop British drug dealers.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

The difficulty with things like this is that the art was stolen 150 years ago. Nobody is alive today who is even tangentially responsible for stealing the art. Nobody is alive today who has even the faintest childhood memory of owning the art. Instead, those who would be harmed by returning it to China are people whose only crime is to have a passion for preserving Chinese artistic history.

If the Chinese government expresses a strong desire to have art stolen during the Opium Wars returned, their wishes should be strongly considered. But it should not be done by force or trickery. Belligerency in these matters will strain international relations and open wounds that were closed a lifetime ago. Respectful cooperation with do the opposite. This applies to both sides.

[Dwarf]

The difficulty with things like this is that the art was stolen 150 years ago. Nobody is alive today who is even tangentially responsible for stealing the art. Nobody is alive today who has even the faintest childhood memory of owning the art. Instead, those who would be harmed by returning it to China are people whose only crime is to have a passion for preserving Chinese artistic history.

If the Chinese government expresses a strong desire to have art stolen during the Opium Wars returned, their wishes should be strongly considered. But it should not be done by force or trickery. Belligerency in these matters will strain international relations and open wounds that were closed a lifetime ago. Respectful cooperation with do the opposite. This applies to both sides.

Boy, if the Chinese want something, you'll better damn give it to them. Especially when you live in China.

[mainiac]

If you live in China, you can just go buy another one.  Those things are like five bucks a piece there once you consider the exchange rate.

[Rilder]

Whats next? Are families gonna start sueing the descendants of some soldier that raped one of their ancestors after a battle?

[mainiac]

For reparations or alimony?

[NFossil]

Whats next? Are families gonna start sueing the descendants of some soldier that raped one of their ancestors after a battle?

I bet you would sue if the solder's descendants are now selling the children from that rape to slavers.

[Maggarg - Eater of chicke]

No, it was nicked fair and square.
(That and most of the British Museum has been nicked from someone or other at some point D:.)

[mainiac]

No, it was nicked fair and square.
(That and most of the British Museum has been nicked from someone or other at some point D:.)

Steal a treasure and you're a thief.  Steal a thousand and you're a museum.

[Awayfarer]

For the record, it's "statute of limitations.

[pokute]

For the record, it's "statute of limitations.

Oh but statue was so appropriate I let it slide...

And no, China doesn't just get them back.  It's been far too long.