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[Derakon]

Typically, by the time the traders have finished setting up, I've moved in all the goods I need to sell, and then a few moments later my broker shows up (assuming he's not sleeping, drinking, harvesting plants, finding a new sock to wear, et cetera), and my trading's done. Then the traders hang around for a few more weeks, just making the game slow.

So it'd be nice if, once I'm done trading with them, I could say "Thanks, guys, now get out of my fort." I can do this with the elves - I have a cedar ring that I keep for just such an occasion - but the dwarves and humans are harder to get rid of. If I deconstruct the depot then I'm stuck with a bunch of goods that I don't want, plus they get angry with me.

Traders should still leave when they normally would, if you haven't dismissed them already, but you should have the option to tell them "Look, you aren't going to get anything more out of us this year, so why waste your time?"

[MaxVance]

I like having my caravans hang around. Sometimes I end up needing something I don't have and the caravan does. But yeah, all those extra items and humans/dwarves might really hurt older machines.

"We came all the way out to this backwater fort to trade. What do you think we are, a delivery service?"

[ April 13, 2008: Message edited by: MaxVance ]

[Neonivek]

To expect them to show up then immediately go after trading may be a bit too far.

Afterall they just traveled for days, weeks, or months to get to your locations.

They probably stay around after trading so long because they are taking this time to relax, map out their course, look over their goods and personel, possibly paying them... Any many other activities

Basically what I mean is: Kicking them out is just that "Kicking them out" and they should hate you for it and possibly never come back.

[Yourself]

Hey, this isn't Dwarf Inn.  Even if it was, if they want to mooch off of my FPS, I expect rent!

[Derakon]

I'm with Yourself here - yes, it'd be more realistic for the traders to stick around (and in fact, it should take more time to do trading). But realism and gameplay are at odds here; traders make the game less fun when they are on the map, and from my perspective are not doing anything useful while they're there, so they should go. If it turns out I wanted an item that I hadn't bought off of them, or I needed their guards to defend me from a siege, well, that's my loss.

[Neonivek]

I am with Yourself in the fact that yes the Traders should give you rent

In fact they should use the ammendities of your fortress and be sorta like mini-tourists and give you money and resources just for visiting your fortress.

Maybe rooms designated for traders (so they get the heck our during sieges)

Right now Traders are kinda like robots or very ethnocentric to the point of insanity.

Though yeah the FPS is a killer...

As for the "Less fun" claim... with exception to the "FPS" (which Ill agree with) it is one of those "It is annoying, people will complain about it, but it does make the game more fun in the long run" kinda things to me. Of course Traders get in the way of sieges, but that is part of the point of them being there.

[ April 13, 2008: Message edited by: Neonivek ]

[Hague]

Well, at some point or another, it would be nice if your shopkeepers and citizens went to the traders and bought some things for themselves with their hard-earned ☼  instead of milling around meeting halls.

[Keldor]

quote:Originally posted by Hague:
<STRONG>Well, at some point or another, it would be nice if your shopkeepers and citizens went to the traders and bought some things for themselves with their hard-earned ☼  instead of milling around meeting halls.</STRONG>

Ooh!  I like that a lot!

[Andir]

Sometimes I like the traders... like when my marksmen die and the only thing between my front door and the enemy is the traders.

[umiman]

During the colonial days, when the spice trade was rife and the East India Companies were supreme, many of the ideas you proposed were instated. Traders did in fact have to pay rent, docking fees, handling fees, administration fees, etc. etc. etc.

The traders were also required to learn the trading languages of the world (resulting in extremely multilingual individuals) as well as carry hugely different forms of currency for different trading areas with no real exchange rate to go by (we're talking shifting between animal dung in one place and coconut shells in another).

Most of the time, ship based traders also had to wait several months after trading because the seasonal winds weren't blowing the right way. Thus, lots of interracial marriages happened ("I've got a wife in Cambodia, one in Kowloon, one in Havana, and three in Saigon!"), lots of migration, and lots of weird looking, rainbow-coloured children were spawned.

In many cases, traders also acted as spies to whichever lord they served. By easily mingling with the society of the potentially-invaded, they would have an advantage when the time to strike came. Even better, sometimes the influence of traders would make it possible to actually just assimilate the entire enemy into your empire and the natives would still think they'd be in charge. *hah*.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that I agree with your idea that unless traders contribute something... ANYTHING else to the game other than look pretty after delivering a minuscule amount of your severely needed chalk, they should just butt off and bother someone else.

[Andir]

So you're saying you want Dwarf/Elf children?

[Neskiairti]

traders should come by ship too and you need to make a 'dock' (trade building against the edge of the river/ocean)

but yea.. the whole system needs a revamp and reworking.. from the screwy weights.. (im sorry, my lump of gold that could buy me 4 pieces of cloth is NOT weighing 9000 lbs) to the balance in pricing.. and also what the traders default to carrying..

adding in 'rent' or a 'get da fuk out o here!' button isn't a bad idea.. could be added in with wandering bands and roaming armies.. imagine if 200 dwarves arrived from an army of your 'allied' dwarf faction.. and needed a place to prepare for an assault and sleep... there goes your supplies.. and who knows what children might be produced by this random situation.. (if its an enemy army, you end up with a siege instead of supporting them) they would likely have wagons you could trade things for (though the price would be in their favor of course.. you wouldnt be buying all of their extra crossbow bolts for the price of 20 stacks of goblin clothing )

maybe theives pretending to be traders.. they arrive at your depot.. and then promptly attempt to steal all the goods you bring there... of course, if you kill them, you get all their goods.

[Mephansteras]

Hmm...the Inn idea is actually really good. It would give the traders somewhere to go, your dwarves could go there on break to chat, get news of the world, etc. Which could give happy thoughts, depending on the dwarf. You could also have the quality of the inn be a factor in the number of traders who visit the fort with the caravan.

And while Elves probably wouldn't stick around, the possibility of having caravan members stay in your fort from the Dwarven caravans makes sense. Maybe even have Human guards offer to join your force as mercenaries.

As a long term thing, having a small human settlement outside the fort would be interesting.

[Neskiairti]

would defenately be interesting..

and maybe that army i suggested.. trying to draft away your dwarves with tales of glory some might eventually come back legendary sword/bow/mace men.. what not..  with epic gear and stories to tell.. though some might also come back with a missing arm leg.. or some other wound of sorts..

[Dwarf Fanatic]

I think that when you build a 'In or Tarvan' and stock food, beds, and liquer in it. You dwarfs have a chance to talk. And even get Legends for Legends mode. Also, the game should calculate distance and easiest way so there are chances of ships. barges, single men on horses, or even if you close, half a village. Then they go to the Tarvan to sleep in the beds and plan on the tables. If they left the plans you can check it with an order. They also pay you for it and if you stock it with Master Piece Rooms, Food, Wine, Beds, Tables they will pay you a horde to the "Bar Tender" which would also be a working noble.