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[Sean Mirrsen]

I'm not sure whether to put it into bug reports or suggestions, but whatever. It can be fixed by a simple mod in the meantime.

Basically, the current whips are wimpy. An iron whip does nothing but bruising, and it's very lightweight, so it's not an improvement over punching. This isn't really what I'd expect an iron whip to do.

And there's a simple fix. Change the whip's attack from [ATTACK:BLUNT:1000:10:lash:lashes:NO_SUB:5000] to [ATTACK:EDGE:10:10:lash:lashes:NO_SUB:5000]. It may require further tuning, but this setup allows the whip to effectively strip away the outer layers of skin and any exposed tissues while still bruising the lower ones. Not sure what kind of problems might arise from that, but it at least seems plausible.

Interestingly, scourges are already using the edged attack, albeit with more penetration. So, oversight?

[Footkerchief]

Last time I checked, whips were still breaking bones.  Does your solution remedy that?

[Sean Mirrsen]

Well, no. They only do it after you've at least stripped through the skin, though. I suppose they'd stop if you lower the speed modifier.

But really, striking with a metal wire that has a supersonic tip pretty much ought to cause some bone damage.

[Footkerchief]

You could also try lowering the weight.  Also, it's totally unclear whether DF's whips are meant to be the type that can achieve supersonic speeds.  Those would be extremely impractical in close combat, even compared to other types of whips.

[Sean Mirrsen]

But you have to agree that having a weapon that's basically a glorified (and lightweight) club instead of a whip is just plain wrong. It should leave scratches and lacerations regardless of whether or not it's supersonic. I'll experiment some more and find a combination that has good effect on unarmored elves, while still being sufficiently ineffective against armor.

[Misterstone]

Personally I don't think whips will be worth it at all until more wrestling features are implemented and we can strangle/disarm people with them.  I suppose they could hurt and cause minor (compared to, say, an axe) lacerations, but I just don't see how they could be an effective weapon in a realistic combat system.  Unless you are fighting naked people and you know how to strangle. 

[Grek]

You can already stangle people with whips: Grab throat with whip-> Put them in a chokehold -> Stranglex20.

[Sean Mirrsen]

You can do the same with swords and groundhog corpses, so it's more of a lucky coincidence on the combat system's part.

If you're fighting someone who doesn't wear serious armor, a whip will generally be able to do fairly well, because it'll make wounds that hurt, even if they don't really threaten the victim's life. There's a reason a whip is most often used for training large animals.

[Pilsu]

It might hurt but it'll hurt a lot more when the enemy that actually wants you dead grits his teeth, charges you and impales you on an actual weapon. I really don't see why anyone would want to use a regular whip as anything other than a tool. Lashers should at the very least use a blacksnake. I'm not sure they should be featured in battle at all as long as the AI doesn't use the weapon appropriately.


Say, are you sure the bludgeoning damage is a bug? The spawned whips are made from iron so they're probably chain whips. Those would deal bludgeoning damage.

[Sean Mirrsen]

That wouldn't be too far-fetched, but if they're chainwhips, aren't they a bit too light? I'd imagine something like that should weigh more than the 700-something grams they do now. Other than that, it's possible.

In battle, a whip would also likely be used as a restraint, and maybe as a way to disarm the opponent, so I wouldn't say they don't have a place in combat. DF can't emulate specific styles of weapon usage though, so for now we have to be content with just making them worthwhile. The best we can do with whips now is make them something more than a lightweight club.