Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Haedrian]

Here's an idea I had, it'll expand what liasons/guild leaders do significantly, and adds an extra dimension.

Currently the liason (i'll refer to everythign as a liason) meets with your dwarf, who appears to be more interested in other tasks, a bit of talking, some negotiating and leaves. Fair enough.

This proposal expands on that.

Firstly, taking care of the liason should be highly prioritised. The only reason why the dwarf should do something else is if he's starving to death, or under attack.

I) Tour Around the Fort -

The dwarf should show the liason around the fortress, showing him the marvellous work the dwarves can do. In this case, the dwarf will take him to 'expensive' items for him to see (that nice platinum cabinet, or the artifact bed). The dwarf's talking skills act as a multiplier/divider (if below average, will divide the effect). After a while, the liason assigns 'points' (not really shown, just programming-wise)

II) A meal -

After the tour around the fort, a meal will be offered to the Liason. In this case, the dwarf will pick the most 'high quality' food and offer it to him. If there aren't any prepared meals, then a 'penalty' to the points is given.

III) Artifacts?

If any artifacts have happened that season, and they are still there, the Liason should request more items of that type. This follows the logic that if the dwarves have craftsmen so good to produce beautiful items like that, then buying those stuff from them will mean better quality.

IV) The discussion.

Happens as usual.
-
What are the points used for?

A higher than-average point score will mean that more goods are avalible for trade, the price is lower. A lower score, means less goods for trade, and a higher price.

The logic behind this:

If you meet a representative, show him around a beautiful fortress and dine him with the best food in the region, he'll return home with a nice report on how great your fort is, and how better it is to trade with a great leader such as yourself.

If you show him a stinking hole in the ground and feed him vermin, he'll be writing a lot of bad reports about you.

Discuss.

[The Rainmaker]

I like the idea, it really pisses me off how hard it is for a meeting to be attended. Once you take off all the hauling jobs you will suddenly be hit with trade good movement and pulling levers and what not. There is no way that the dwarf would make his own diplomat wait so that they can install a bed on the lowliest peasant's room. What gets me is that the liaison comes shortly after the turn of the season, smack dab in the time that the dwarves want to go to bed. So he is greeted then forced to wait for the week or so that goes by before my liaison wakes. Definitely should be able to pawn off the responsibility on touring the liaison around on a lesser noble if taking a nap is that important.

[gurra_geban]

for the points score.

a horribly low point score maintained for a couple of years, along with some slight cultural differences should be able to initiate a state of war
a really high point score, along with excellent trading could grow the seeds of an alliance, and when goblins knock on your doorstep the trade dependant well willed allies are quick to send armed aid

EDIT: also! Depending on what wares your fortress does best and what tales reaches the other civ, your fort could get "tourists", travellers devoted to the same tasks as your legendary dwarves

[Sabin Stargem]

I think the touring idea should be divided into two sections for the points:  How impressed the Liason is with your Fortress in terms of wealth and military, and then his reaction to your diplomat.  It is very possible to downright hate an individual, but be awed by what he associates with - and the opposite can be true.  We could go a step further and give Liasons cultural preferances, as appropriate to each of the five races.  Elves already dislike wood products, Goblins seem to love battle, Dwarves are artists and mechanists, Humans still love wealth, and Kobolds like interesting features that appeal to their curiosity.

The purpose for dividing the Wealth and Relations with the Liason is essentially so that he could go back home and say 'These guys are stinkin't rich, and are complete jerks.  Who is with me to give them a raiding party?!', or tell their bosses to invest in your Fortress.  Heck, it may even be possible for individual Liasons to hate a Fortress, while their Parent Civilizations adores that same place.

[Haedrian]

Well, since you seem eager to expand on this...

I was also thinking that a civilisation considering war/peace with you, would check out the barracks. If your defensive force consists of an army of champions, they'd quietly forget any problems they have with you. If your army is weak, AND you have a lot of riches... I wonder what could happen eh...

[Sabin Stargem]

Exactly.  That, and if Civics are added into Dwarf Fortress, it might be possible for other Civilizations to reconsider your Fortress.  'Those heathens disbelieve in Armok?!  Hang them by their beards!"

[Silverionmox]

Good idea. Additionally, let the liaison wait in the relevant office (or a meeting hall) until he is picked up. And that should be a high-priority job, not a lowest priority one.

[dizzyelk]

You should be able to choose how polite/punctual your representative is.

Urist McBroker: Sorry to keep you waiting...
Elf Liasion: I've been waiting 2 months!
Urist: Err... yes, I took a nap, now if you'll come with me, let me start the tour with the dining room.
Elf: All the furniture! Its WOODEN!
Urist: Yes, I believe it came from when we clear cut the southern slope. Now, you'll notice how each table and chair is lovingly decorated...
Elf: WITH ELVEN BONE!! PREPARE FOR WAR!

[Pilsu]

I don't see why they'd declare war on a poor fort. I could see trade good wagons increasing with an impressed diplomat but prices would logically go up as well

[Aquillion]

I don't think most diplomats would get that upset over a bad fortress and bad food.  After all, they're professional diplomats, and if your fortress is struggling to survive or you're a backwater country mining town, they should understand that.

Also, more pragmatically... this just seems like it would be another place where the meeting code could break again.  I'm having visions of diplomats getting stuck all over your fortress during the tour, the dwarf giving the tour getting thirsty and wandering off...

Just a bad idea.  The meeting code has enough problems as it is without making it more complicated.  If you want visitors who admire your fortress and all that (which isn't such a bad idea), they should  be added separately, not grafted on to the already-struggling diplomat.

Perhaps there could be 'social' visits from important non-diplomats -- say, the Prince of another country visits personally, or an important noble from another fortress.  Those people would not have meetings, but would wander around, perhaps have some demands from their say, and how you meet those would influence diplomacy with their home.  This makes a lot more sense; in general, bad food is not going to make a diplomat go berserk.  If the Duke himself arrives, though, he's not going to be used to that sort of treatment.  (Of course, it should only happen once you're fairly wealthy and an attractive location to visit in the first place.)

[Haedrian]

I don't think most diplomats would get that upset over a bad fortress and bad food.  After all, they're professional diplomats, and if your fortress is struggling to survive or you're a backwater country mining town, they should understand that.

Yes, but that's basic economics.

If the fort is big and rich, then it sounds like a good investment to drag a huge amount of traders and their wagons to the fort. If its a small backwater town, then they shouldn't even bother trying to trade, won't bring as much profit.

[MagicJuggler]

Once we get the ability to go out into the world, the ability to send YOUR own Liasons would also be most appreciated. The ability to attach a retinue as well would also allow one to use the Teddy Roosevelt school of diplomacy, of walking softly and carrying a big stick...("So...we have all these Dwarven steamtanks just lying around and it would be a mighty shame if something were to happen...we were talking about negotiating a favorable trade in bauxite?)

[Granite26]

Just a bad idea.  The meeting code has enough problems as it is without making it more complicated.  If you want visitors who admire your fortress and all that (which isn't such a bad idea), they should  be added separately, not grafted on to the already-struggling diplomat.

Without the negativity, I agree with this.  It just seems like there's too much added complexity for too little benefit.  I like the idea of it though.  I think that this is supposed to be happening, in theory.  The meeting is about discussing these things.  The visits are just abstracted out.  It might be nice to see an AAR about what the diplomat thought, though.

[plstcflsh]

hey there. i wanna plug the chat concept i posted elsewhere http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=26308.0. it seems relevant to this discussion. what i'm proposing is some sort of unified talk engine to improve social dynamic and user interactivity.

[Sabin Stargem]

I don't think the whole 'leave in the middle of a meeting to get a drink' tendency of dwarves was intended by Toady.  As such, it is less a gameplay mechanic and more of an overlooked flaw.  Once the priority of actions are sorted out, something like holding meetings and giving tours wouldn't be as much of a problem - especially if rooms can be designated for touring, which would make sense - some areas are dangerous or off-limits in real life tours, and so the same goes for Dwarf Fortresses.  Heck, serving food and drink for the diplomat and the Meeting Dwarf would certainly make sense, since that would keep the dwarf from feeling thirsty or hungry.