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Author Topic: How to correctly start fortress mode.  (Read 4475 times)

mossomo

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Re: How to correctly start fortress mode.
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2008, 04:36:47 pm »

I don't agree with the fisherdwarf statement, 1 fisherdwarf is a good compliment to any map with a decent amount of water

Agreed. 

I'm fond of fisherdwarf hybrids.  I embark with at least one dwarf with the following skills, 4points/2pts/2pts/2pts respectively:  Woodcutter, fishing, herbalist & ax dwarf.

I dont clear cut.  After chopping down twenty trees or so, I'll let them forage for a bit.  If they happen across a goblin or kobold thief, activate them militarily and watch them severe limbs.

When embarking, bring a rope to get your well up quickly.

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Porpoisepower

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Re: How to correctly start fortress mode.
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2008, 04:59:21 pm »

My Start
1 Miner(2 ranks)
1 Wood worker(1 wood cutting/ 1 carpentry)
1 stone crafter(2 stonecrafting)
1 farmer (1 farming, 1 brewing)
1 Mason(1 mason, 1 engraving)
1 Appraiser(1 building designer, 1 appraiser)
1 Mechanic (1 Mechanic, 1 Mining)

This leaves plenty of points for buying booze, seeds, a war dog or two and a cat.  I always buy a plant Rope first thing too... because usually I'm ready for a well before I'm ready to start making clothes/bags/fiber crafts.
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Drunken

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Re: How to correctly start fortress mode.
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2008, 05:14:01 pm »

I just wanted to add my take on the hunting thing:

I take a marksdwarf with a crossbow at the start and immeditately draught him and set him to harrass wild animals and do not chase opponents (m-v-c-a). I then station him to guard things that might be attacked by wild animals or something. When I have a few spare micro managment moments I send him out to where animals are (u-find animal-c). The advantage of this is that he doesn't get killed anywhere near as often by animals or terrain, with conventional farming I always lose my hunter eventually and often all his gear too. It is not quite as fast as conventional hunting at the start and requires some player management but when the hunter gets good (yes with this method you can train you hunter on a target range) you can actually take out entire groups of wolves, camels and even elephants and hippos because the hunter wont pick up the body he will just keep shooting. When the whole flock is down your peasants come and collect the kills while your hunter fetches more ammo.
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motorbitch

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Re: How to correctly start fortress mode.
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2008, 06:17:24 pm »

Quote
dont clear cut.  After chopping down twenty trees or so, I'll let them forage for a bit.
i totaly disagree by two reasons:

1: directly after embark most dwarfs wont do anything, but a season later all are totaly stressed. so buld a temporary wood stokpile near your entrance, make the cutter chop and all other dwarfs haul wood until your fist dungeons are digged out.

2: the biome the fort is build on destines the chanc of new tres, not the ammount of trees. so a maptile with a tree on it is a maptile, where a new tree culd grow.


« Last Edit: September 05, 2008, 06:22:03 pm by motorbitch »
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Idiom

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Re: How to correctly start fortress mode.
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2008, 09:36:03 pm »

1:Miner/Engraver
2:Miner/Mechanic
3:Mason/Architect
4:(10%)Woodcutter/(50%)carpenter/(40%)Axe dwarf
5:Bone Carver/Stone Crafter
6:Grower/Brewer
7:Anything. Depends on the map. Fisher, hunter, marksdwarf...

Embark with:
-40-60 drink
-With readily available soil: A dozen fish(for the bones for bone bolts as much as for food)
-Without readily available soil: Depends on your starting distance from the water. At least 21 fish.
-100-150 logs
-2 cats (KILL ALL KITTENS)
-Dogs if in a hostile place. Train wardogs on location.
-2 Picks
-1 Axe
-25-50 Stone if on an aquifer
-All else really does depend on where you're embarking to. If you won't get caravans, embark with some cattle.

I love this game. You can make just about any starting profile work.
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numerobis

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Re: How to correctly start fortress mode.
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2008, 10:03:43 pm »

I always just "Play Now" -- I used to get hung up on the starting build, but unless you're on some particular kind of difficult terrain, showing up with a pick and an axe is enough to do anything.
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wendigo

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Re: How to correctly start fortress mode.
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2008, 11:15:18 pm »

Yanlin, THANK YOU for starting a thread that redeems noobs in general.  Thank you for not having an anime-related avatar that makes one puke a little in the back of the mouth.  You seem to have gotten a grip on the game faster than *COUGH* some of us have.

My two bits here for the starting player would be:

1:  Learn to construct walls and other stone buildings.
2:  Build a keep around your trade depot/entrance.  Fortify with traps and war dogs.  Have battlements with arrow slits and train your early armed forces to stand behind said slits raining crossbow death on ambushers and siegers.
3:  Have your carpenter(s) craft a steady flow of beds/barrels/bins
4:  Have a healthy farm operation going on, as near the surface as possible.
5.  Run a still nonstop.  Get those seeds, distill that booze.

Remember:  Dwarven Syrup = victuals for all (with a little cookin')
Remember:  Weapon traps and marksdwarves = survival for for most

Metalworking is desirable, but not crucial.  Fortifications + food and booze makes for a successful fortress *anywhere*.  Many of these concepts may need reference to the DF wiki to work, but learn them and you'll be O.K.  Especially if you can construct a drawbridge opening/bottleneck for the entrance to your keep.  Hang in there and *enjoy the sauce*!
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sneakey pete

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Re: How to correctly start fortress mode.
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2008, 08:11:02 am »

More hunting stuff.

Drunkens method, and hunting in general, is good, so long as you set up your stockpiles well. You need a corpse only refuse pile right next to your butcher shop, you need gather refuse outside turned on (found under orders menu), and you also need adequate storage space for all the products that are generated by butchering an animal. If you do this, and have a dedicated/semi-dedicated butcher, you'll find that every single corpse is butchered, providing that there's not a sleep/on-break combo or something.
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Hyndis

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Re: How to correctly start fortress mode.
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2008, 05:21:08 pm »

I set every dwarf in the fortress to butcher and tan. Its a very high priority job since the corpses and skins will rapidly decay, and by setting every single dwarf to be able to perform this task (skill doesn't matter, a dabbling dwarf does just as well as a legendary dwarf) there's a very high probability it will get done in time. If you have a lot of corpses to process, simply build a bunch of butcher and tanner workshops.

Back a few versions, where I could butcher goblins, I had something like 8 of each workshop. After a siege they were extremely busy.  ;D
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Yanlin

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Re: How to correctly start fortress mode.
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2008, 01:40:23 pm »

Did you miss me guys? I am back!

I would love to add this guide to the wiki. So I will try. If anyone wants to add proper links to the text, feel free to do so. But I wont tolerate defacement. A forum copy will ALWAYS exist.

Have fun.
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Derakon

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Re: How to correctly start fortress mode.
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2008, 02:06:14 pm »

Here's my addition: always give each dwarf 5 ranks in 2 skills. Why? Because this lets you buy the most experience for each dwarf. If you compare the amount of time needed to get from untrained to Proficient in 1 skill, vs. the amount of time needed to get from untrained to Novice in 5 skills, you'll see that the former takes a lot longer (excepting skills like mining where experience is plentiful). Plus, by buying lots of experience at the start, your dwarves will have more stat boosts. Proficient in two skills is enough to get two stat boosts - if you luck out and get a Very Agile dwarf at the start, he'll be massively improving your production in anything he sets his hands to.

The only exception to this rule is the one-shot wonder skills Appraisal and Judge of Intent. You need Novice in the former to see prices when trading, and Novice in the latter to see the trader's mood. So it's worth putting a point in each of those for your designated trader, but otherwise, max skills out, then get materials.

For what it's worth, here's my skill loadout:

Miner / Leatherworker (and bring leather, for cheap starting armor and bags)
Mason / Engraver
Armorsmith / Weaponsmith (optional as he doesn't do much until you get  forges, but these skills are hell to train)
Gemcutter / Gemsetter (optional; I like gems)
Grower / Brewer
Glassmaker / Cook (goes with the jeweler; obviously don't go with glassmaking on a sand-free map)
Miner / +3 metalsmith / Appraiser / Judge of Intent (trader)

I bring four picks, and train up the jeweler and the smith in mining, since they don't have a lot to do until the main workshops are up and running. The rest spend their starting days hauling and building temporary workshops.
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Noble Digger

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Re: How to correctly start fortress mode.
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2008, 06:08:51 am »

Awesome thread! Any idiot can avoid many early pitfalls via a list like this--but I'm glad I hit the ground running without knowing anything about the game. It was a godly experience.

Some things I do:

Don't bring an anvil. It costs 1200 embark points, but it only costs ☼1000 from the dwarven caravan in your first autumn and you're significantly unlikely to (need to) be running a metal industry in your first year. Miners need to be legendary before it's efficient to let them dig ore and bringing ore at embark can be very expensive. Those 1200 embark points can be spent on goods that will last for years beyond embark, especially on harsh maps where wood and water are scarce--wouldn't you love to have 600 units of liquor, or 400 wood logs, instead of an anvil you won't be using for years?

Rock mugs sell for ☼30-60 apiece so you only need to process a few large rooms filled with stone to end up with enough ☼ to buy out the first caravan. I normally set a craftsdwarf to crank out mugs (or rock short swords, which are ☼150-300, if you have excess wood) for the entire first year. Make sure you have a few bins to stick them in or you'll smash your own dick with a hammer watching dwarves walk them to the depot one at a time. Note that each rock produces 3 mugs, every time, so that stone goes from ☼2 value to ☼90-180!

The first caravan always brings silk and plant cloth, wood, leather, food\bags, drink\barrels, pets\cages, ropes, and random useless crap. Nearly all the objects there mentioned serve an important purpose in new forts (be it appeasing year two strange mood dwarf, tying up dogs to watch for kobolds at the front door, storing liquor and seeds or sand for glass, making beds, etc).

It's worth doing what's necessary to trade successfully in your first year, because if you don't, you won't get human traders the following year. Humans bring lots of useless [Large] items, but once you meet with their diplomat you can foster incredibly lucrative trade. I've had them show up with 7 wagon loads of wood because I didn't ask for anything else. They also might have stone types that your map and home civilization lack, so definitely shop around. If you make generous gifts to the human civilization they may grow incredibly rich and send a merchant baron with 10 wagons and 8 mules loaded with goods. Which you can then dump magma on in your trade depot.

Obsidian goods are thrice as valuable as normal stone goods, so if you're on a map with obsidian layers, rejoice at triple the bang for your buck. Flux stone (dolomite, limestone, etc) is twice as valuable as normal stone, so don't balk at building your entire fortress from it if you have large productive layers of it. Especially early on, the extra fortress value makes for more interesting gameplay in your 2nd and 3rd year (you'll see what I mean when they arrive).

If you plan on starting your metal industry or glass industry early on, or in the first few years, really, bring bituminous coal with you. Each one of these can be burned alongside one wood to produce 3 bars of coke, a net gain of one fuel. Since coal and wood both cost 3 embark points, bringing equal quantities of these makes your money more valuable, lowering the price of fuel bars from 3 to 2 each. If you have trees on your map already, just load up on coal. Warning: if coal catches fire, you won't like it. Do not dump it in the magma or let fire imps shoot at it. if it doesn't explode it can burn for decades. google centralia, pennsylvania--this happens in DF.

While I suggested leaving the anvil off, if you plan to cut down a single tree in your first year then you must bring either a 300-point axe or a 1200-point anvil and materials to produce axes. If you go with the self-production strategy you get the advantage of early metal industry and you can then produce your own picks as well (saves you 10 embark points per pick, given that 1coal+1wood together lowers the price of fuel to 2 per, making each axe or pick cost only 10 embark points to produce--6 for the ore, 2 to smelt it, 2 to forge it) If you aren't comfortable not bringing an anvil, this is probably the best start to save you points by not bringing axes and picks. Note that you can also get a free axe by giving one of your starting dwarves points in Axedwarf, though I'm not sure what level of skill provides what type of axe.

Dogs and cats--matter of preference. I love having cats everywhere--that little 'c' has so much character as it smugly walks around the fort eating vermin. Dogs are indispensible, because when dwarves berserk, the dogs are on them like flies on shit. They never get adopted unless you let them, so you can check population anytime you want. Lock up female animals in cages at embark and any time they are born and you won't have pet problems. Animals in cages don't fuck, but if they fucked before getting caged they will squirt out one last litter before becoming celibate.

Scuttle the wagon and build a statue and place it indoors as a statue garden as soon as possible, or your dwarves will idle at the wagon. You want your dwarves and all their shit indoors as soon as possible, losing one of your starting dwarves in year one is probably the best reason to abandon. It's just shitty to have happen, because they are the founders that the entire society is predicated upon. Maps don't care about your dwarves--if there are skeletal beasts, giant eagles, carp, or worse, being outside is asking to die. Delve out secure lodgings, ere the XXXX get hungry. It's good advice.

Get sweet pods in the ground as soon as you can. If there is soil on the map near where you're settling, simply dig the ground 1 level below and you have a cavern ready for planting. Sweet pods can be brewed into rum and seeds or processed at the farmer's workshop into dwarven syrup, which it seems like every 2nd dwarf is in love with. Dwarven syrup also makes incredibly valuable roasts when cooked into lavish meals with other ingredients, and these can be sold for ☼20,000 or more, sometimes enough to buy the entire caravan's worth of useful goods.

Make sure your dwarves have safe access to fresh water inside the fortress. Embarking at locations without fresh water is STRONGLY ILL-ADVISED. If you do so, a stubbed toe will cause the dwarf to die of dehydration in bed, because dwarves ONLY use fresh water for health care. Trust me on this, it's really obnoxious and there isn't shit you can do about it as your dwarves wither in bed. Use the Zones menu to create a 1x1 pit\pond and channel the floor under it, then make a bucket. One of your dwarves will make a few trips to the nearest fresh water and fill the tile, making sure that if someone gets injured they won't die of thirst. Alternatively, figure out how the fuck wells work in DF3D and place one. Good luck.

I'd also heavily recommend sand on your embark regardless of what you're trying to accomplish. Glass can be used to make anything that can be made of wood or stone, it's reasonably valuable, clear, elegant, and one of the most notorious desires of fey mood dwarves. Keeping raw green glass around saves lives. It can also be used to train gemcutters to legendary, as a single 1x1 tile of sand produces infinite raw glass which can be cut like a gem. If you do not have sand at embark, you will NEVER have any glass on your map unless you find rock crystal, which occurs in clusters of 3-9 units and is very rare. It cannot be imported or produced by other means.

Miasma doesn't travel diagonally, so if you don't want to deal with the risk of outdoor refuse piles or of letting bones and shells rot outside, dig a room of diagonally-connected tiles in a grid and make it your refuse pile. It only uses 50% of the space but nobody will get their shit snatched off by a giant eagle\carp\whatever while going outside.

Cave adaptation isn't a big deal. Dwarves with low toughness will interrupt jobs because of it, but fuck them. if you truly care, make a statue garden on b1 of your fortress and channel the cielings out so it's filled with sunlight, and gover the channeled hole with a laaaaaaarge bridge. Bridges block collision of fluids and units and bolts but not sunlight, and this ensures your dwarves will get a regular dose of vitamin A every time they finish a job or come to a party. If you install such a room in a mature fortress where everyone is cave adapted, it will pretty much have a bright green floor for 2 seasons, but after that the sickness should be gone.

Two miners is the standard build, and I usually give them furnace operating as their second skill--seems to synergize well. They dig the ore, then smelt it. I have started bringing a third miner sometimes and this really helps if you plan to have a "large" fortress with 3-wide or 4-wide hallways and you want to start planning the massive rooms out in year one. Legendary miners are also great pinch defenders--they often kill creatures in unarmed combat (with their picks) without being activated, if they are grappled.

A mechanic is a must. Mechanisms, levers, floodgates, drawbridges, and cage traps open up so many fun gameplay options. Caged animals and goblins are excellent test subjects and having a raisable bridge blocking the front door to your fortress is a pretty stateful siege defense to give your army time to gear up and make their way to the front gates.

Instead of bringing dwarven wine and plump helmet spawn, bring a lot of plump helmets. Each one brews almost instantly (with a barrel!) at the still into 5 wine and 1 seed, a value of 11, for 7 points, and good experience for the brewer.

Bring one of each 2-point meat at start instead of bringing 15-20 of one type. You get a barrel for each type you bring, which is very worthwhile early on. The same is true of liquor and seeds--bring at least one of each type to get a free bag\barrel.

Turtles generate bones and shells when eaten--valuable in year 2 if you get a few mood that wants them.

Get beds built and set up asap, so your dwarves don't sleep on the ground the first time they get tired. Even sticking the beds in a corner is better than letting them take to the floor. Dwarves get an unhappy thought each from sleeping on the floor, sleeping in an improper room, and being wakened by noise.

Like beds, dwarves really want tables and chairs. Built 2-4 of each wherever you want in the fortress within the first month if you can, as dwarves get an unhappy thought from standing up to eat.

Actual bedrooms should not be adjecent to workshops on the x, y, or z level. A workshop above your dwarf's bedroom will wake him up every time he sleeps it seems like.
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andrea

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Re: How to correctly start fortress mode.
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2008, 07:01:36 am »

you don't need a statue garden. a meeting zone should work just in the same way, but dwarves won't make partyes there (unless you really want to get  dwarves on partyes the first year)

Yanlin

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Re: How to correctly start fortress mode.
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2008, 07:53:04 am »

http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/How_to_correctly_start_fortress_mode

I will no longer be personally updating this thread. It's a wiki guide now. I'll also make it organized by category later today.]

Edit: Categories are done. Now all that's left to do is link all vital words.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 11:32:41 am by Yanlin »
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