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Author Topic: Thoughts on plants; discussion  (Read 740 times)

FFT

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Thoughts on plants; discussion
« on: September 24, 2007, 05:12:00 pm »

To start off, I made and continue to work on the alcohol mod. With the new version coming out, Toady's expressed that we will be able to control agriculture outside. So here are some of my thoughts.

Right now, the only real "agriculture" is that which takes place inside the caves. The non-subterranean races are stuck with what are basically weeds. Dwarves get cave wheat, but there is no aboveground equivalent. There should be, one would expect, now that external agriculture is in play. Additionally, things like wheat and corn wouldn't really be found as weeds in the wild--you'd have to get the seeds to start a crop. I don't think there's currently anything in the matgloss_plant tags to support this.

Anyway, a list of the sorts of things I'm going to be adding once the new version comes out, assuming they aren't already in:

-Normal agricultural plants which can be brewed-
Wheat (beer), barley (ale), rye (scotch), corn (bourbon), potatoes (vodka), rice (sake), and soybeans (soy vodka). Each of these has a cave-dwelling alternate which is already in the alcohol mod I made, it just makes sense to put their normal versions in the game.

-Normal agricultural plants which have other sensible uses-
Cotton (an above-ground alternative to pig tails). Additionally, any number of plants which could potentially be clarified into dyes, or into vials for their oils and whatnot. And there's probably a number of things in this section I haven't thought of yet.

I've got a large number of new plants that I've been meaning to put into the mod for a few months now, but the incoming new game update has led me to put it off until after it's out. I don't know how much of this Toady has already thought of/added, either.

Suggestions, thoughts, anybody?

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Mzbundifund

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Re: Thoughts on plants; discussion
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2007, 06:07:00 pm »

I totally agree that there should be surface crops that fill the roles subterranean crops do; there should be crops for cloth, crops for various kinds of alcohol, crops edible immediately, crops that need processing first, and so on.  

However, I kind of like that we don't have real-world crops.  "Bloated tubers" could easily be potatoes, or cassava, or yams, but calling them something unique adds a nice touch to the world.  I don't want to just see "cotton" showing up as a crop, I like the "rope reed" we have now, I'd just like to be able to plant it.

One further note, I wouldn't be averse to forbidding the growing of rope reed and surface crops for dwarves.  I think it would be neat if the various races knew how to cultivate different plants, bloated tubers and longland grass for the humans, valley herb and fisher berries for the elves, rat weed and muck root for the goblins.

Not that I wouldn't like to see additional plants added to these, so that each race can cover the various needs, but I kind of like the idea that a race's cultural slant would play out in their agriculture.  The dwarves plant subterranean fungi and almost everything they plant can be brewed into alcohol.  The elves probably grow exotic fruits and semi-magical plants, and would have the largest variety of crops available to them.  Perhaps the goblins have no crop that makes cloth, they have to hunt to get leather for their clothes.  The humans grow a variety of hardy tubers and grains to make nutritious, easily preserved breads, their crops can grow during many seasons and harsh temperatures.

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Dwarmin

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Re: Thoughts on plants; discussion
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2007, 09:50:00 pm »

Heres some plant mods I use...
[MATGLOSS_PLANT:GRASS_FLAX]
   [TILE:231][COLOR:6:0:0]
   [NAME:flax][NAME_PLURAL:flax]
   [RIVER][VALUE:2]
   [GENPOWER:1]
   [SUMMER][AUTUMN]
       [DRINK:mountain tea:4:0:1]
   [DRINKVALUE:2]
   [FREQUENCY:100]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:5]
   [THREAD]
   [PREFSTRING:lustre]

[MATGLOSS_PLANT:GRASS_JUTE]
   [TILE:231][COLOR:2:0:1]
   [NAME:burlap][NAME_PLURAL:burlap]
   [FOREST][VALUE:1]
   [GENPOWER:1]
   [SUMMER][AUTUMN]
   [FREQUENCY:100]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:5]
   [THREAD]
   [PREFSTRING:rough texture]

[MATGLOSS_PLANT:LICHEN_DAWN]
       [TILE:6][COLOR:6:0:1]
       [NAME:dawn lichen][NAME_PLURAL:dawn lichen]
       [GROWDUR:500][CAVE][VALUE:2]
       [MILL:golden dye:6:0:1]
       [MILL_VALUE:40]
       [MILL_DYE:GOLD]
       [SEEDNAME:sun lichen spore][SEED:6:0:0]
       [GENPOWER:1]
       [AUTUMN][WINTER]
       [FREQUENCY:75]
       [CLUSTERSIZE:5]
       [PREFSTRING:bioluminescence]

[MATGLOSS_PLANT:PLUM_ROYAL]
      [TILE:58][COLOR:5:0:0]
      [NAME:royal plums][NAME_PLURAL:royal plums]
      [FOREST][VALUE:5]
      [DRINK:royal liquer:5:0:1][DRINKVALUE:5]
      [MILL:indigo dye:5:0:0]
      [MILL_VALUE:40]
      [MILL_DYE:DARK_INDIGO]
      [EXTRACT:plum jelly:5:0:0]
      [EXTRACTVALUE:20]
      [EXTRACT_BARREL]
      [EXTRACT_COOKABLE]
      [GENPOWER:1]
      [SPRING][SUMMER]
      [FREQUENCY:50]
      [CLUSTERSIZE:5]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_WHENCOOKED]
      [PREFSTRING:grooves]

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mickel

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Re: Thoughts on plants; discussion
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2007, 09:57:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by FFT:
<STRONG>Additionally, things like wheat and corn wouldn't really be found as weeds in the wild--you'd have to get the seeds to start a crop.</STRONG>

Those things grow in the wild, it's where they were originally cultivated from, after all.

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Koji

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Re: Thoughts on plants; discussion
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2007, 10:04:00 am »

quote:
Those things grow in the wild, it's where they were originally cultivated from, after all.

Cultivated's the important word. Wheat and corn in their pre-cultivated (wild) forms are nothing like their modern counterparts. They were tiny and produced little food. What they did make was far less healthy or delicious than what we have today.

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FFT

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Re: Thoughts on plants; discussion
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2007, 04:36:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Koji:
<STRONG>

Cultivated's the important word. Wheat and corn in their pre-cultivated (wild) forms are nothing like their modern counterparts. They were tiny and produced little food. What they did make was far less healthy or delicious than what we have today.</STRONG>


Exactly. Modern variants have been domesticated and bred since who knows how long ago. Maize, for instance, was originally developed in Central America long before Europeans started exploring it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn#Origin

[ September 26, 2007: Message edited by: FFT ]

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Sylverone

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Re: Thoughts on plants; discussion
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2007, 02:06:00 am »

Also, this being a fantasy world, you can't rule out the weird plants with odd characteristics. In one of the th Power Goals, Toady mentioned getting tied up in Serpent Vine.

-The lizard man is propelled away by the force of the blow!-
-He slams into a patch of Serpent Vine!-
-He is entangled!-

The game would proceed to give messages each turn to the effect of "The serpent vine tightens its hold on the lizard man!", and "The lizard man struggles against the Serpent Vine's death grip!"

Once, for a role playing session, I invented a plant I dubbed Swordvine. The vines grow in dense patches growing outward from a central stalk. The are covered with venomous spikes. The stalk itself, at least during the spring or summer, is tipped with either a purple and green bud or a large, vibrant purple flower. During the fall, the stalk produces a single fruit, which has powerful anti-venom properties and can counteract the potently venomous oil that coats the plant's spines. During the time that it is producing fruit, Swordvine temporarily becomes harmless (it will normally writhe about when it feels a disturbance, a method of getting at its prey/predators with its spines, but becomes subdued when fruiting) In the winter the vines die off (although the spines are still dangerous as the oily venom still lingers). At this time the stalk (which has no spines on it) can easily be pulled from the dead plant. The stalk is very strong, and sharp like a honed blade; this is where the vile plant gets its name. If one can harvest one of these stalks, they gain a strong, light weapon, as well as the added benefit of a natural venom that is difficult to cure. Naturally, this plant's properties have been taken advantage of by the Elves, who cultivate it around the perimeters of some outposts for protection, taking advantage of its fruit, and the natural weapons it produces (its spines can be used to tip arrows). It's venom causes immediate sluggishness and slowed reaction time/movement, as well as paralysis in high doses. Comas can result if the poison stays in the blood. Otherwise a painful and feverish process of healing follows. Swordvine is a tropical plant that obtains nourishment by preying on passing creatures, making up for the fact that it grows close to the ground, where most direct sunlight is blocked by the broadleafs dominating the canopy, and most ground nourishment is taken by other plants. Each of its fruit produces three large, triangular black seeds.

While that's more detailed than necessary for DF, these types of plants (as well as other exotics; glowing star-fruit?) would add to the fantasy aspect of DF. Assuming it ever becomes possible and I can think of a way to do it, I might mod Swordvine into Dwarf Fortress.

-You trip over a patch of Swordvine.-
-Your right lower leg has been pierced!-
-You feel sluggish.-
-The vines begin to thrash about!-
-Your right lower leg has been pierced again!-
-You are paralyzed and fall over.-
-The vine drags your body closer to its center.-
-It begins to slowly digest you-
-...-
-You have been devoured.-

Hehehe.

[ October 02, 2007: Message edited by: Sylverone ]

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Dwarmin

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Re: Thoughts on plants; discussion
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2007, 12:48:00 pm »

Even better-what other vermin or plants with immunity to its poison would use the sword vine for protection? I hope Mutualism, parasitism and commensalism are eventually added in some form.
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Sylverone

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Re: Thoughts on plants; discussion
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2007, 07:41:00 pm »

-You sit on the hollow log.-
-Ravenous insects begin to swarm from the inside of the log!-
-The insects cover you!-
-You stand up.-
-They begin to sting you!-
-You are paralyzed and fall over!-
-...-
-You have been devoured.-

I think that high toughness should cause venom and poison effects to be lessened, or at least slowed. An extremely tough character might be able to defeat or get away from whatever poisoned him/her, and be able to apply antivenom, or treat the wound some other way. Maybe apply a topical medicine that pulls the venom out, or at least keeps the effects off long enough to allow you to go to a town for treatment.

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