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[Mephansteras]

Yes, but those were special crossbows known as arbalest, and they were basically the (dwarven) Ballastae's lil' brudder. The medieval Knight in full plate was the tank, and to counter that, the Arbalast was the medieval TOW launcher.

Lesser crossbows could be reloaded faster, but did much less hurt. Not that they still woulden't kill a Knight if you somehow managed to get one through his visor.

No. Not only do "normal" crossbows have the strength to punch holes in plate armor - so do longbows and composite bows. Plate armor isn't some magical impenetrable forcefield.

While true, Plate armor isn't really supposed to STOP an arrow or bolt anyway. It's designed so that the projectile will slide off of the curves of the armor and not have anywhere to stick. Which is why Plate is SO much better then chain. And later plate so much better then earlier plate. You get a lot fewer hits that actually transfer their force to the wearer. Most of it just slides off. But there are always spots where the attack will hit head-on, and go in. A lot of this also depends on range. A bolt at close range is much more likely to penetrate armor then a bolt at max range.

[Earthquake Damage]

They damn well do have [TRAPAVOID]. Right in between [LOCKPICKER] and [FLEEQUICK]

I have a copy of every version since 23.130.23a (with the exception of 28.181.39a), and I just confirmed that they do not have TRAPAVOID until at least 28.181.39a.  In short, it's a new feature.

Kobold thieves used to have a hard-coded TRAPAVOID ability.

[Wolfius]

No. Not only do "normal" crossbows have the strength to punch holes in plate armor - so do longbows and composite bows. Plate armor isn't some magical impenetrable forcefield.

Good, tempered plate will stop a classic insane-draw longbow arrow cold, even at close range. Well, ok, it'll probably make a little hole, but it won't penetrate far enough to hurt the knight/etc., who is wearing padding underneath.

There are plenty of documented accounts of knights riding around after battle looking like pincushions for all the arrows stuck in their armour.

You're better off aiming for the (probably armoured) horse - the knight can still fight, if he's not too badly hurt in the fall(hell, you can do cartwheels in full plate - I've seen it done) but an angry foot-knight is still better than a cavalry charge.

[Zerox]

The people who are arguing about crossbows are missing the point.

Medieval Crossbows were NOT fully automatic.
Goblin crossbows, however, have everything:
Laser sights, scopes, Silencers, single-shot, burst, and full-auto modes.

[JujuBubu]

to bad the lose those abilities in the hands of dwarves

[Qmarx]

to bad the lose those abilities in the hands of dwarves

Nah, they keep the full-auto.

[Lord Byte]

Yes, but those were special crossbows known as arbalest, and they were basically the (dwarven) Ballastae's lil' brudder. The medieval Knight in full plate was the tank, and to counter that, the Arbalast was the medieval TOW launcher.

Lesser crossbows could be reloaded faster, but did much less hurt. Not that they still woulden't kill a Knight if you somehow managed to get one through his visor.

No. Not only do "normal" crossbows have the strength to punch holes in plate armor - so do longbows and composite bows. Plate armor isn't some magical impenetrable forcefield.

Your average medieval crossbow could easily puncture 4 armor plates!  A well-trained bowman could puncture plate (by shooting at joints or other vulnerable areas) but they were costly and timeconsuming to train.  A crossbowman was much easier to train and arguably deadlier (at the cost of a much more limited killing range). The crossbow was the bane of the armored knight, they even tried to ban crossbows as they found it appalling that a commoner with barely any training could kill a knight so easily!

[Wolfius]

Your average medieval crossbow could easily puncture 4 armor plates!  A well-trained bowman could puncture plate (by shooting at joints or other vulnerable areas) but they were costly and timeconsuming to train.  A crossbowman was much easier to train and arguably deadlier (at the cost of a much more limited killing range). The crossbow was the bane of the armored knight, they even tried to ban crossbows as they found it appalling that a commoner with barely any training could kill a knight so easily!

I only have a few minutes befor I have to head out, but some quick research suggests crossbow VS plate armour is a very unsettled matter.

Both varried greatly in quality, even at a given age, and the truth probably lies somewhere therein.

I will say I find the claim of four plates(probably over a centimeter of quality hardened steel) pirced suspect, however, and would generally trust myself to high-quality, well tempered and hardened late medieval plate, in the face of most crossbows(of course, I imagine we'd both rather be sitting in a bush with a good GPS and a radio ).

[Toady One]

They damn well do have [TRAPAVOID]. Right in between [LOCKPICKER] and [FLEEQUICK]

Kobold thieves used to have a hard-coded TRAPAVOID ability.

It used to be part of both LOCKPICKER and MISCHIEVOUS, but I took it removed it after it was brought up someplace, so there are more possible combinations now, though the unmodded game itself doesn't use them.