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[WingDing]

It occurred to me that in my current fortress (Mournfulrecluse) none of my dwarves are acquainted with anyone beyond "passing acquaintance."
There are no meeting zones, no statue gardens, no barracks, no husbands, wives, or parents (I make liberal use of my magma tube when it comes to useless migrants).
Due to the lack of gathering places I often find idle dwarves just standing around in the wilderness, or in their rooms staring at the walls.
The Mayor is the dwarf with the most people who 'kinda sorta know him' and some dwarves don't even have conversation skills. It's really rather disturbing.

However this may be a possible solution to tantrum cycles; as nobody makes any friends and thus nobody gets unhappy when anyone dies. There is the downside of dwarves and animals being all over the place due to no place to gather, but I'm playing with sieges off and the worst animals we get here are slug/snailmen so it doesn't trouble me all that much. Although I'm sure that issue could be solved with some dwarven ingenuity.

So, what are your thoughts on this?

[Areyar]

My thought is:

"Probably has no military barracks either"

My military dwarves tend to be the most sociable of the bunch as they are continually smelling each others' hairy armpits and breaking noses.

[MathijsBuster]

It's obvious that the lack of dwarven social skills and friendship is due to having no meeting rooms, as they throw parties there that really help gain skill levels, and they get to like eachother there.

Having no meeting halls indeed helps if you don't want your dwarves to get *too* attached to eachother.

I find, however, that there are quite a few good sides to having those skills evolve.
For starters, I believe skill increases trigger increases in stats like toughness and agility.
Also, without friendships, no relations will start, no dwarves will get married, and no new dwarves will be born. For people who embrace new dwarven population, this is a bad thing.

Finally, some of the social skills that increase are actually handy.
They help in keeping other dwarves happy on a daily basis.

I'm not sure if all this weighs up against having a depressed spiral of death once good dwarven friends start to die.. But I've never had one of those spirals anyway... just heard about them.

[Andir]

I just had a fort go through the spiral.  All the way down to a total loss when my last two dwarfs killed each other.  One berserk, the other died of bleeding.  It happened after a goblin raid.  I wasn't ready for it at all, my fort was still very much in the building stage and I think I went up in value too fast for my plans.  I ended up activating every dwarf and letting the AI sort it out.  It favored the goblins, taking out 10 men for every goblin.  After that, it was tantrum after tantrum.  They'd all go to the legendary dining room and destroy the furniture until it was a meager dining room.  I couldn't keep the furniture stocked to keep people happy (even with immigrants in the middle of the spiral) when they ate.  I had gotten a philosopher right after the invasion as well.  Not sure how I did it and I was trying to save the fort so I can see what he does.

It was too much to control, end of fort ensued.

[Derakon]

Not sure how I did it and I was trying to save the fort so I can see what [the philosopher] does.

Nice irony here, as the philosopher? He doesn't do anything.

[Quift]

I dont think that would really work as the most chatty ones are the military dwarves as previously noted. That means that the group most prone to death, who are well trained in martial arts and armed to the teeth are the ones who are most likely to get a tantrum.

I on the other hand ensured that the military got to see loads and loads of action so that they all had the "took joy in slaughter recently" thought which basicly means they are uncaring psychopaths. And a well trained, and equipped fortress guard with a large enough jail does wonders to stor tantrums. killing of tantruming dwarves immidiatly and throwing minor offenders into jail til they start to chill of a little.

[WingDing]

I realized I forgot to mention that I have no military, but I see all you smarty-pants already got that figured out.

I find, however, that there are quite a few good sides to having those skills evolve.
For starters, I believe skill increases trigger increases in stats like toughness and agility.

On the subject of stat increases from conversation, I'm pretty sure that's a bug as there is no way talking to people can be considered a strenuous physical activity that warrants Mr. Loitering Peasant becoming an atomic super man who can rip a dwarf in half with his bare hands. Then when THOSE dwarves start a tantrum they're not going to 'get into a fist fight' they're going to go on a murderous rampage!

Also, without friendships, no relations will start, no dwarves will get married, and no new dwarves will be born. For people who embrace new dwarven population, this is a bad thing.

Most people consider children pretty useless as it takes over a decade for them to become adults and contribute to your fort. Not to mention that if you draft migrant peasants into the military they are most likely married to another migrant and will carry their offspring into battle. And when Urist junior gets bisected by a goblin swordsman you get even more unhappy thoughts. And let us not forget losing a spouse is a worse thought than losing a friend.

So yeah, married dwarves = higher chance of tantrum spiral.

Finally, some of the social skills that increase are actually handy.
They help in keeping other dwarves happy on a daily basis.

I'm not sure if all this weighs up against having a depressed spiral of death once good dwarven friends start to die.. But I've never had one of those spirals anyway... just heard about them.

From what I've seen and heard, no amount of happy thoughts can outweigh the stacked effects of that many friends dying.

I dont think that would really work as the most chatty ones are the military dwarves as previously noted. That means that the group most prone to death, who are well trained in martial arts and armed to the teeth are the ones who are most likely to get a tantrum.

Perhaps if you built your butchery in the barracks the soldiers would become hardened individuals from witnessing the death of livestock? I'm sure you could also put one into the meeting zone to harden your civilians as an alternative to not having dwarves make friends or something. Once they 'don't really care about anything anymore' the chance of tantruming from friends dying could be greatly stemmed.

And a well trained, and equipped fortress guard with a large enough jail does wonders to stor tantrums. killing of tantruming dwarves immidiatly and throwing minor offenders into jail til they start to chill of a little.

Although I have heard that the fortress guard can stop a tantrum spiral, it doesn't help when you make guards too strong or too weak as they'll either go around beating everyone to death or get murdered themselves. The nobility with their mandates and punishments also make the fortress guard look like a bad choice. Not to mention that the fortress guard is fairly useless in all other respects and can tantrum themselves.

[Dareon Clearwater]

A pair of immigrant children kept getting stat increases, leading to some confusion on my part as they weren't actually DOING anything but standing around and chatting with people in my mead hall.

On the plus side, I have the toughest Comedian ever.  Handy for when your audience consists of Throwers and you botch your Comedian roll.