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[Erom]

I'm working on the "cleaning up goblin crap takes up a good 80% of my play time" problem. I don't want to remove goblins - in fact, I'm planning on playing a game without[babysnatcher]so I really want to solve this issue. What I want to do is remove most of their equipment, but buff them up physically to compensate.

I'm OK with them having a few items, so here is what I was thinking-

Weapons: No change. May remove ranged, but that's a separate issue.
Gloves, Shoes, Hats: Totally removed
Pants: Leave loincloths, remove all others
Armor: Leave one type, call it "crude plate" or something, remove all cloth and leather
Shields: No change.

And then to compensate-

Damblock from 0 to 2
Size from 6 to 8 (bigger than a human, smaller than an ogre)
Melee attack from 1:2:BLUDGEON to 1:3:BLUDGEON

What do you all think? Still roughly balanced?

[Slappy Moose]

It sounds like goblins will be near impossible to kill.

You didn't make them bad fighters by taking away their clothing, just less shit for you to clean up.

I would never play that mod, but whatever, it's your choice.

[Erom]

Too much then? That's why I asked - I'm dabbling in things I'm not yet familiar with.

And I fear I have made them bad fighters - no hats, shoes or gloves means its a good bit easier to lop of sensitive digits or kill them through decapitation. That's why I added some damblock and size. Maybe I should just give them damblock +1 and size +1 (damblock = dwaves and size = humans) and not buff their melee?

[Surma]

quote:Originally posted by Slappy Moose:
<STRONG>It sounds like goblins will be near impossible to kill.

You didn't make them bad fighters by taking away their clothing, just less shit for you to clean up.

I would never play that mod, but whatever, it's your choice.</STRONG>

Near impossible? Not likely, dwarves themselves have a damblock of 1. They will be more difficult to kill, but not horribly so. They will be mini-demons if you let them keep ranged weapons.

What I would do is either remove ranged and up the damblock, or leave both as they are.

Size, on the other hand, actually lets them hit harder with melee weapons, and take slightly more damage. I think I'd leave them at size 6, unless you think that they'd still be too easy with the damblock.  :p

Just remember, it's your copy of the game, make it as difficult as you like  :p

[umiman]

This is interesting, if you do test it, tell us what their power is like then.

[Haven]

As far as I know (mostly from adventure mode), clothing doesn't stand in the way of weapon damage unless it's leather or better. Still, there have been plenty of calls for mildly tougher goblins, this could suit that just fine.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Normal clothing does factor in its share of defence, but it's fairy low, especially considering we don't know what's the block percentage of various cloths. It's still there, nevertheless.

[Pickerel]

Since there is no change to the use of weapons, the increase in their attack (1:2) --> (1:3) is unnecessary because the increase in size will, if I remember correctly, add that much more damage as is.  I don't know if I am remembering it correctly, but if it is a 1 dam per 1 size thing, then simply changing them to size 7 would add 1 damage to every melee attack.  8 adds 2.

The damblock is probably be a good way of going about compensating for the lack of stuff ^.^

[Deon]

I think it has some geomethrical progression when counting the damage from size.
Also note that the size adds and increases damblock too.

[Erom]

Well, I've tried +1 damblock, +2 size, loss of armor as described in the first post , and the goblins still sort of get splattered into pulp when you look at them funny, so it's hard to get a real feel for this.

Maybe I need to try fighting them in adventure mode as a better calibration tool?

[umiman]

I've been playing with a bunch of combinations and fighting them in adventurer. I'm currently putting them at size 9, damblock:3 and double melee damage as well as fat:5 (for some reason).

It's still pretty easy to KILL THEM. But then again, goblins were never the toughest of creatures.

HOWEVER... it's very easy for them to KILL YOU first because of their size. I've never lost so many adventurers to goblin guards, usually the first guard I come across too. The fights usually boil down to who whacks who first. Kinda like samurai battles. They have no armour, so if you hit them, they normally die. They are so bloody strong though, even stronger than ogres at this point. It's pretty interesting. I might up their damblock to 5 and lower their size and see how that works.

[Earthquake Damage]

Maybe you should change their name from goblin to goon (inspired by Quest for Glory).  Bonus:  They can still be represented by a 'g'.

[umiman]

I am NOT looking forward to a goblin siege as it is... My population has been slaughtered by zombie condors swooping down on my dwarves (they took three of my legendaries!!!) as they cross the chasm bridge and my only military dwarf is my woodcutter who is armed with a steel axe, a wooden shield, giant bat leather armour.

Three of my initial starting dwarves, including my double proficient metalcrafter got owned by a giant bat (the one who I turned into leather armour) who cruised in over the walls right in the first year.

So I've got 16 near-suicidal rabble who in a few in-game months will be facing size 11, damblock:6, steel-weapon wielding, firebreathing, building-destroying ogre-orc-balrog-goblin-things. I'm in deep shit. Though I've never felt fearful of a goblin siege in a long, long time.

On a side note: Make your goblins size 11, damblock:6, steel-weapon wielding, firebreathing, building-destroyers for a good time.