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Author Topic: NQT's Mafia Design Thread  (Read 1177 times)

notquitethere

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NQT's Mafia Design Thread
« on: April 24, 2023, 04:43:57 am »

NQT's Game Formats

Here's a list of mafia or mafia-adjacent games that I have run based on setups I've designed myself. I've been reflecting on how to do the next CYOM, so I thought I'd recap what I've tried before.

Elements

This was a format for five players where each player had two allies and two enemies (in a circle) and they win when their enemies are dead and they're still alive. A bit swingy maybe but a lot of great possibility for back-stabbing drama.

Elements 1

Two more games of this were run by other people.

Procedurally Generated Mafia

Proc-Gen Mafia uses a random role generator, with some very wacky possibilities. Not always very well balanced but always nice and chaotic. Typically I'd make a batch of roles and then weed out ones which would just instantly end the game (like "Twice per day you can kill every player").

Proc Gen 1 - Mafia Win
Proc Gen 2 - Town Win
Proc Gen 3 - Town Win
Proc Gen 4 - Mafia Win

Angry Ghosts

Angry Ghosts is a game where the dead can keep posting, there are no role-flips and only the dead have night powers (but no vote). I had forgotten about this setup, which was never actually run.

Puzzle Temple Panic

Puzzle Temple Panic was a cross between mafia and a turn based adventure game with objects, puzzles, an action economy and everything. It was very ambitious but also quite  hard to run. To my shame, the actual ending stalled out due to waiting too long on a player for an action and me getting busy with other things, but by that point the scum team had basically won. It was probably a little too difficult, but I loved the blended genre ideas here.

Choose-Your-Own-Mafia

CYOM is my signature game. The core conceit is that players pick their roles themselves (often through a point-buy system) and then they can gain new roles to adapt to the game state as they survive successive days. As a format, it's very much a mixed success. There have been some phenomenal highs and some dreadful lows.

Choose-Your-Own-Mafia - Town Win
Point-Buy system. Probably too town-sided. Some players were very good at making role creation choices, others not so much. There were cult conversion powers on the table, which haven't appeared since.

Choose-Your-Own-Masquerade - Town Win
Same point buy system, but with adjusted costs and more powers. This time it was a Masquerade, so players could only target masks and no one knew (prior to claims or mask inspects) whose mask was whose. It was also Deep South, so there was no night phase, everything happened during the day, which makes things nice and dramatic. People had fun with it but it was also felt to be quite town-sided (though the mafia did have more tools at their disposal that they didn't always take advantage of).

Choose-Your-Own-Mafias - Scum Team B Win
This was like the Masquerade game but instead had two scum teams, as well as NPC masks (so someone could kill a mask but it turns out its not a real player). I upped the character creation point value so players started out twice as powerful. There were also third parties. The game went on to 13 days because one of the scum teams managed to cheese the point system in some inflationary way.

Choose-Your-Own-Mafia 4 - Town Win
This game used a D&D style race + class +levels system which was quite elegant. Scum gave up on D1, this was a complete disaster. Town full claimed and came up with a plan to squeeze out the scum and confirm everyone, and so scum threw in the towel. Miserable. Learned an important lesson about doubly ensuring the game can't be won by full claiming D1.

Choose Your Own Spheres

This series of games were BYOR where players made their role elements by choosing paths along a grid of spheres.

Choose Your Own Spheres - Town Win — The first game was a giant tightly fought game with the longest thread in the mafia subforum, in part due to the trading mechanics. Despite being so long, it ended on Day 3 with a town victory.

Choose Your Own Spheres 2 - Scum Team B win — The sequel game was too clever for its own good, two scum teams who had no idea the other team existed, a a third party role that prevented flips for most of the game, several resurrections, and confusing ability-warping powers. In the end, one of the scum team won but under circumstances that were paradoxical. It suffered from the complete opposite problem to CYOM: I'd swung the pendulum too far from completely transparent, to completely opaque!
« Last Edit: February 11, 2025, 08:29:05 am by notquitethere »
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notquitethere

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Re: NQT's Mafia Design Thread
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2023, 11:04:45 am »

I've been working on a card game variant of Choose Your Own Mafia. It ditches the masquerade and nightless parts (though maybe Masquerade should be kept), and gives a sort of deck building aspect to it. Players make their roles up with cards.

Choose-Your-Own-Collectable-Card-Mafia

This is a Choose-Your-Own-Mafia game, and like every earlier version of the game, it has a different ruleset. In this game you will spend Experience Points (xp) to get Booster Packs. Each Booster Pack contains a number of role cards, from which you will construct your role. During the day, you may also trade cards with other players.

Spoiler: Booster Pack (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Cards (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Trading (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Alignments (click to show/hide)




The whole design is that players still get to make their roles, but they're limited at any given time by the number of powers they can take, and what powers are available to take. This should limit really cheesy game-breaking strategies, but still give players some flexibility.

The common action cards are mostly trash (by design), so players will want to get uncommon or rare action cards. Uncommon and rare targeting gives them more power, flaws of all kinds give them more flexibility and power. All of the reflexive (previously called 'auto') cards are useful, so but there are only so many slots, which limits the power. I might add 3rd parties in, or have multiple scum teams, I'm not sure yet.

Some questions:

- Should there be more cards in the packs or is 7 a sweet spot? Here's a selection of random draws for reference:

Spoiler: Random Draws (click to show/hide)

- Is Job Lot too good? From the testing above, I think it might actually need to cost as much or more xp than the other booster packs.

- Are there any cards that should be outright removed? The list is based a lot on my revised list after CYOM3. It massively reduces active power stealing that was common in the previous CYOMs.

- Are there any cards that should be included?

- What rules are currently unclear?
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TolyK

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Re: NQT's Mafia Design Thread
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2023, 05:01:35 pm »

Haven't dug too deep, cuz yeah, but consider what might be reasonable limitations to allow an in-person version of CYOCCM to be playable. With a mod/GM, of course.
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just do whatevery tolyK and blame it as a bastard mod
Shakerag: Who are you personally suspicious of?
At this point?  TolyK.

Jim Groovester

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Re: NQT's Mafia Design Thread
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2023, 12:47:50 am »

I spot checked if the rarities made sense and it seems to check out. Maybe situationally I would want a common card over an uncommon or rare but by and large the higher in rarity the card is the more desirable they are.

If there are flaws in the setup I think they only get wrung out after playing it a few times.

- Is Job Lot too good? From the testing above, I think it might actually need to cost as much or more xp than the other booster packs.

Half thinking it through it seems like getting more cards gets you more chances for flaws which are pretty good opportunities to increase your utility for relatively cheaply compared to getting rarer cards.
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I understood nothing, contributed nothing, but still got to win, so good game everybody else.

notquitethere

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Re: NQT's Mafia Design Thread
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2025, 06:20:52 am »

This is the game I plan to run next. It's a sort of hybrid of CYOS and CYOM. There's no point buy or sphere grid, and it's like a BYOR in that players bring ideas into the game which are then written up, but the structure is build around modular powers that you can buy and develop throughout the game, so players can rapidly switch up tactics to respond to game events — the core design goal of the original CYOMs. Any thoughts on this at this stage could be helpful.

CHOOSE-YOUR-OWN-MATERIA - (CYOM5)
This is a game in the CYOM series. These games always have the same two features:

- Semi-open setup: all possible mechanics are known to the players at game start, though the exact arrangement is unknown
- Power-Creep: Players gain XP at the end of each day they survive, and may improve their powerset with XP.

CYOM is also inspired by the Choose-Your-Own-Spheres (CYOS) games, with their sphere web. Where CYOS had a Final Fantasy 10-style sphere grid, this game has Materia: power spheres that can be put into slots for different effects. This game follows a similar pattern to earlier CYOMs, though it is slightly different:

- Delayed-open setup: all mechanics are contained in materia, but players only know what possible materia there is, and what the materia they own does.
- Materia-As-XP: The materia itself is the form of XP. At the start of the game each player will gain five random materia, and another random materia at the end of each night. Materia can either be equipped, traded in the day, or spent for extra actions and respeccing.

Each player has the following slots with which to place their materia:

Weapon: [Gives them an action that can be used on other players]
Armour: [Gives them an immunity]
Accessory: [Changes their role]

During character creation, each player suggests 1-5 materia for inclusion in the game. Materia inspired by the players suggestions (I may reword or amend names for brevity, or combine similiar suggestions) will form the pool for the game.

Spoiler: Character Creation (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Materia (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Progression (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Trading (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Alignments (click to show/hide)
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notquitethere

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Re: NQT's Mafia Design Thread
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2025, 07:00:53 am »

Going through my folders, I've found some more games I designed but never ran, for one reason or other. Agents of Morrowind I put a lot into but I think I might have made it too complex. Is it something people would even want to play?

Agents of Morrowind

Vvardenfell is at war with Dagoth Ur, the Awakened Lord of the Sixth House, who waits in Red Mountain and sends forth his curses, diseases and cultists. Messages pass between the various great powers on the island, trying to eliminate the threat.

Unfortunately, after one of the representatives was found ritually murdered, it appears that there is a traitor among them. All the leaders of the Great Houses and Guilds have retreated to their various strongholds, communicating through their agents. Secrecy is the rule, and even the agents don't know who their fellow agents are working for. Who among them is working for the Tribe Unmourned?

This is a fast-paced game of mafia-style hidden roles. Days and nights are 24 hours each.

Spoiler: Voting (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gazeteer (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Public Information (click to show/hide)



This one I didn't come up with anything other than the core concept. It seemed like it would be too much hassle collating lists of roles, as most games the actual roles are revealed on some random post somewhere near the end.

Bring Your Own BYOR Role

In this game, you may pick any role from any BYOR, CYOM, or blah from this subforum. I will then alter as needed (as little as possible) to make it balanced enough with the other players.

Roles are independent of alignment which will be rolled as normal. You may submit a separate mafia role if you wish.

You may wish to go through this search, or look at some of the best games, or pick a game you remember playing in.



Another one I didn't get further than a sketch of an idea. I thought a And Then There Were None / Ten Little Indians type scenario where players are stuck in a murder house. The gimmick would be the killer player would have to pick a location (e.g. the Dining Room) and a murder weapon (e.g. the candlestick)— a sort of reverse Clue/Cluedo situation. I didn't get as far as working out how the deduction part would go, but I think the point would be the killers try to implicate other players by tricking them into being in certain locations. Definitely a work in progress, but I think this has legs.

Murder House Mafia

You have been invited to Ynys Penglog, a remote stony islet off the coast of Wales. The only thing on the island is crumbling mansion belonging to a man you used to know, Mr Standfast.

All the guest are old friends, family, lovers, employees, enemies, of Mr Standfast. The old butler meets everyone off of the boat, brings them up to the house, sets them up in their bedrooms. The first murder happens that very night.


Spoiler: Roles (click to show/hide)



I completely forgot I'd designed this. I think I couldn't get the priority processing to actually work and not be completely gameable by either side. Read it and I think you'll see the issue.

One Day Ultimate Mafia

This is a multi-day game of mafia that only lasts one game day. At the end of the one and only day, all players PM a list of all the other players in order of elimination. Mafia additionally submit an order to the players they'd like to mafiakill; the doctor submits a list of players they want to protect; and the Cop submits a list of suspects they wish to inspect. Then the entirety of the rest of the game is automated based on these preferences and we see which team won.

Spoiler: Mafia Roles (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Mafia Rules (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Voting specifics (click to show/hide)

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