Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: My thoughts on the graphical release so far (.50 on) *please ready Bay12!!  (Read 1645 times)

Buttery_Mess

  • Bay Watcher
  • 11x11
    • View Profile

I've been playing since it was released, and these are some of my most immediate thoughts;

1. Staircases! I'm sure it's been said but people aren't kicking up nearly as much of a stink about it as they should be. Removing the ability to dig or construct up, down, and up-and-down staircases makes it impossible to construct certain things, and is confusing and ultimately destructive. Being able to lay out a vertical column of staircase all in one go is great, but it's often the case that a careless ramp removal will, for instance, chop the middle out of a staircase and from then on it's basically impossible to dig up from that point. Not to mention, when you dig down to the caverns, it's a mess to try and seal off the bottom now, especially since hatches are no longer indestructable from below.

2. The replacement of the military screen omits a few important functions, most notably the ability to design a uniform before your first squad is created, and the ability to easily edit a uniform on the fly. This is a horrid oversight. I know some people don't like the old military screen present in .47 (a lot of people left DF when it was introduced) but it was perfectly functional, with keeping equipment, uniform, positions, schedules, provisions etc. apart. I don't even know how to set provisions now and uniforms are a hassle. Please give us back at least all the functionality of the old military screen! Additionally, having nested menus for material selection would be great- for instance, for some reason when selecting an iron shield, 'iron' is hidden somewhere between every kind of wood and a bunch of weird metals you'll likely never see. But, at least this is as functional as it was before!

3. Single right click to exit menu is really annoying. I can't tell you how many times I've spent ten minutes checking boxes in the trade screen before pushing the mouse up and having my hand touch a cup, inadvertently clicking the right mouse button and undoing all my effort. Very annoying. Switching it to a double right click to close, or adding a confirm exit window, or just changing it to a little X in the top right corner of the window would be greatly appreciated!

4. It's not possible to sort potential suspects on the justice screen, (although they are sorted by certain categories already) which means you have to manually go through the list to find a named individual, frustratingly with the name in their local language, when their surname is in English on the report screen. This is extremely tedious and fiddly. Being able to filter out dead people and animals would be a bonus, and also the ability to sort the list by name and residential status would be helpful, and being able to see their names in English and their native language would be helpful, too. Or at least this should be consistent across all windows.

5. Being able to click on categories in the trade and stock screens is nice, but the fact that you have to click on a category first and then use the search filter is a bit annoying, especially on the trade screen. This is because objects can be loose or stored; they can be stored in bins, chests, cabinets, barrels, and pots... it's not easy to see the contents of bins on the trade screen, so you end up not being able to tell your trade goods from your pre-finished goods, and your 'blank' crafts end up getting carted to the trade depot instead of your decorated ones... rather a nuisance really. Being able to inspect the interiors of containers on the trade good selection screen, and being able to search for items which may be in a container before selecting the category would be extremely helpful.

6. This is something of a carry on from previous versions, but I can't think of anywhere it's possible to see active Guild/Temple demands and agreements. This is a problem because you can have dozens of religions in a fortress! When you agree to upgrade The Communion of Lepers or whatever to a Grand Temple, it's something you idly click on and then it's so easy to forget which of the 27 shrines you've got on the go you were supposed to fix, especially when you're already trying to remember other agreements you've committed to at the same time.

7. Can't remember if this is an ongoing issue, but battle reports for a creature usually refer to opponents in vague terms, such as "the marksdwarf". This can be problematic when twenty dwarfs dogpile a werebeast and you're trying to work out which one might have gotten bit. It's not the end of the world but this is unnecessarily vague, especially since in the graphical version you could even have a tooltip when you hover over "the marksdwarf" or whatever and it could expand on the information to include a name.

---

Okay that's all I can think of for now, I guess I can always add more if something else pops up. Overall all though I'm really enjoying the new version.
Logged
But .... It's so small!
It's not the size of the pick that counts... it's the size of the man with the pick.
Quote from: Toady One
Naturally, we'd like to make life miserable for everybody, randomly, but that'll take some doing.

Buttery_Mess

  • Bay Watcher
  • 11x11
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the graphical release so far (.50 on) *please ready Bay12!!
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2023, 01:31:39 am »

I just thought of another one- there doesn't any longer appear to be a way to send a creature for slaughter/gelding from the creature info panel (that is, when you click on them to see their details). This can make it quite difficult to select creatures from specific pastures, as it's not clear which pasture they're in. In addition to adding this back to the game, having pets/livestock's pasture clearly labelled in the relevant unit list screen would help in selecting creatures for slaughter.
Logged
But .... It's so small!
It's not the size of the pick that counts... it's the size of the man with the pick.
Quote from: Toady One
Naturally, we'd like to make life miserable for everybody, randomly, but that'll take some doing.

EuchreJack

  • Bay Watcher
  • Lord of Norderland - Lv 20 SKOOKUM ROC
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the graphical release so far (.50 on) *please ready Bay12!!
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2023, 05:22:16 pm »

I actually much prefer the current stair system over the old one, and for breaching aquifers it works 10x better.

The rest is quite valid.

I'll add that the trade system is quite awful. By dividing up the trade goods by material type, and being unable to just select *all* the crowns, it takes forever.
It would also be nice to be able to sort by quality, for that is what I need for my goblets.  I only want to trade away *some* of them, my dwarves need to keep some of them!

Buttery_Mess

  • Bay Watcher
  • 11x11
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the graphical release so far (.50 on) *please ready Bay12!!
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2023, 06:33:13 am »

Don't get me wrong, the staircase system now is more convenient, *when it works*. It's just that when it doesn't work, it's impossible to fix. For instance, once you've finished digging up, you won't be able to dig upwards again. It's also a hassle to keep building up. If you dig down to the caverns, sealing off the base is a nuisance. There's no reason why up, down, and up/down digging and constructions can't be added back to the game, whilst retaining the simple autostaircasing for general use.

It's important to remember that for many players, a single flaw in a fortress can be enough to force them to restart. For example if you accidentally make a room one tile too narrow, it can jank up your fort's whole symmetry and ruin its aesthetic, forcing many players who are anal about such things to start over. With staircases, it's almost guaranteed at some point to cause such problems, with no easy fix.
Logged
But .... It's so small!
It's not the size of the pick that counts... it's the size of the man with the pick.
Quote from: Toady One
Naturally, we'd like to make life miserable for everybody, randomly, but that'll take some doing.

Dibbler

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the graphical release so far (.50 on) *please ready Bay12!!
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2023, 07:37:25 am »

I just thought of another one- there doesn't any longer appear to be a way to send a creature for slaughter/gelding from the creature info panel (that is, when you click on them to see their details). This can make it quite difficult to select creatures from specific pastures, as it's not clear which pasture they're in. In addition to adding this back to the game, having pets/livestock's pasture clearly labelled in the relevant unit list screen would help in selecting creatures for slaughter.

Selective breeding can also be pretty fun, but it is hard to know which animals you put up to slaughter :/ Would love to see that screen return!
Logged

Salmeuk

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the graphical release so far (.50 on) *please ready Bay12!!
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2023, 07:54:46 pm »

good summary and polite tone, agreed %100. these things are extremely tough to get used to - I have played quite a bit of premium and I still find myself questioning the clunkiness of certain procedures. hopefully it remains at the top of the to-do list, two months post release.

for instance, adding the ability to select multiple blocks at once was a godsend and only occurred after community uproar . . more minor improvements and fixing oversights like that, and or basic menu functionality improvements geared towards speed and flow of designation, would help old and new players alike.
Logged

Splint

  • Bay Watcher
  • War is a valid form of diplomacy.
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the graphical release so far (.50 on) *please ready Bay12!!
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2023, 06:46:05 pm »

In regards to the stairs, I don't see why building or digging them individually wasn't put in under the advanced options tab found on several designations. It's clear a kind of system was there that could be used for the job, so it's really strange that it wasn't.

That said, I agree with you on this. It seems pretty obvious that there's no single problem with the new version, it's just lots of mostly small, weird ones that at least to me seem kind of hard to ignore when taken as a whole.

Naryar

  • Bay Watcher
  • [SPHERE:VERMIN][LIKES_FIGHTING]
    • View Profile

DFhack makes it so the trade screen issue is not an issue for me, but I have the exact same problem with the import/export diplomacy screens. I accidentally right click and here goes the screen.

Last time I opened a diplomacy screen, well, I had to redo it four times. Now I don't want to open it anymore. I agree with OP that a confirm-to-close would solve the issue.

Buttery_Mess

  • Bay Watcher
  • 11x11
    • View Profile

That, or have the game remember which boxes have been ticked when you mis-click out.
Logged
But .... It's so small!
It's not the size of the pick that counts... it's the size of the man with the pick.
Quote from: Toady One
Naturally, we'd like to make life miserable for everybody, randomly, but that'll take some doing.

Buttery_Mess

  • Bay Watcher
  • 11x11
    • View Profile

I know it's a little gauche to do so, but I'm bumping this because seriously, we need constructed and dug up/down, up, and down stairs back. Only being able to designate a continuous up/down chain of stairs over a minimum of 2 z-levels is fort-breaking without extreme vigilance. I understand the new system was added to make it easier for new players but it robs all players of important features. Please add them back, it doesn't mean getting rid of the new up/down designation!
Logged
But .... It's so small!
It's not the size of the pick that counts... it's the size of the man with the pick.
Quote from: Toady One
Naturally, we'd like to make life miserable for everybody, randomly, but that'll take some doing.

Telgin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Professional Programmer
    • View Profile

It's surprising to me that the stairs thing hasn't affected me more often, but I've definitely run into it.  Totally agreed that it should be high on the priority list to add some way to do it again.

I'm hoping that we'll get an idea of what the prioritization is for quality of life and bug fixes, since right now all we really know is that Toady is working on restoring adventure mode.  Pretty sure Putnam is working on the announcements, but I'm not sure it'll be anything new so much as restoring a way to view old logs.
Logged
Through pain, I find wisdom.

Buttery_Mess

  • Bay Watcher
  • 11x11
    • View Profile

I've noticed caravans getting stuck alarmingly often, but I don't think that anything's changed in that regard, I think I just keep getting caravans spooked by wild animals. Has anyone else noticed caravans getting stuck more often?
Logged
But .... It's so small!
It's not the size of the pick that counts... it's the size of the man with the pick.
Quote from: Toady One
Naturally, we'd like to make life miserable for everybody, randomly, but that'll take some doing.

Telgin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Professional Programmer
    • View Profile

It feels like it's happened to me more too, but I'm basing that on a relatively small amount of data.  I've had it happen a couple of times in .50.x, but I just don't remember it happening to me at all before that.  To be fair, I did most of my playing in .31.25 and didn't play a whole lot in between, so my memory is probably just too rusty to remember it happening.
Logged
Through pain, I find wisdom.

Oafsalot

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the graphical release so far (.50 on) *please ready Bay12!!
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2023, 03:28:09 am »

Fix the bloody stairs... Seriously, I stalled on playing the new release because of this bug and it is STILL HERE? No excuses at this point, none.
Logged
If you like this game why not head over to https://www.patreon.com/bay12games/posts and make a small contribution?!

Urist Mchateselves

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: My thoughts on the graphical release so far (.50 on) *please ready Bay12!!
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2023, 09:08:38 am »

More search bars and menus need to be added. The ability to assign dwarves to labours, positions, etc from their unit screen. An "interrogate everyone" button for the justice system. The ability to see the unit screen of a dead citizen/animal. The list goes on.
Logged
If you're so sure that you're gonna end up killing all of dwarven civilization, why not make a statue depicting 2147483647 dead dwarves, all of which are burning? Name it something good, like Deaddead the Dead Dead Dead-Dead of Dying. Just put it in the main hall or something, as a grim reminder that they're all gonna die.