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Author Topic: The 10,000 Dwarf Challenge.  (Read 5495 times)

NordicNooob

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Re: The 10,000 Dwarf Challenge.
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2022, 05:52:23 am »

Seems interesting, would probably never try to do it. But I think there's a few things to note with this challenge.
1. World gen. Mod the raws for a dwarf-only micro world, end it year 50ish. You'll need migrants to get to 10k supposing you want to do it legit and not just spawn migrants in. Otherwise end at year 5. 1x1 embark will be fine, but you can do a 2x2 or 3x3 with little impact to your FPS compared to what we're about to do, so I wouldn't bother with 1x1.
2. Develop fort with absolute minimal pathfinding from one, singular tavern. You will have no labor shortage and all jobs will be done except sustaining your population by the time you're at like 10k. Everybody can *probably* be naked without going insane, since everybody will be spoon fed tavern happy spam. Main paths should be tavern, dining, food stockpile, and beds (probably do a "dorm" for everybody with artifact cheese), so all of those should be basically adjacent. No hallways between those main things. Minimal armor for everybody is optional, but clothes should be destroyed. Siege deleter (bridges) is advisable, and stockpiles should be absolutely minimized since labor speed isn't nearly as important as keeping as few dwarves working as possible. Temple and library are inadvisable since a dwarf can make do with just the tavern and we don't want them walking anywhere.
3. Once your fort is designed, open the floodgates. Spawn em all in or semi-idle your game for a bit. When your fort starts filling up, make sure everybody who isn't strictly necessary is sitting in the tavern idling, where they won't be doing much pathing except for base needs of sleep eat drink, most of which should be happening very close to the tavern.
4. Other things to note: seal caverns (you need one layer for dwarves to exist), embark somewhere barren like a flat mountain, DFhack 'hermit enable' to disable caravan, migrants, and visitors (after you reach 10k, of course), and temperature and weather off of course. None of these will be that important since they don't scale with your population, but they can help a little bit.

1x1 necro/intdead prisons are also an option, but I feel like it's slightly less in the spirit of the challenge.

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AvolitionBrit

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Re: The 10,000 Dwarf Challenge.
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2022, 07:15:44 am »

I have finally had time and i have begun to attempt this.

Here is my progress Current Project
« Last Edit: September 02, 2022, 08:31:42 pm by AvolitionBrit »
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Razzim

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Re: The 10,000 Dwarf Challenge.
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2023, 06:58:07 pm »

Result of my attempt - 4987 dorfs at 10fps:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That's the max amount of dorfs I was able to get. To add more someone would need to figure out how to increase the population limit past 5000 - it might not be possible (most probably a limit set in code, according to very knowledgeable people). And I have little to no intention to look for a way to increase it - I'm already at 10 fps after all.

DFHack was used only to speed up the setup process and to surpass the embark size limit. All dorfs are fully functional and have their eyes intact (I tried though, it did not change fps at all). In case I decide to set my PC on fire I very well might send them all at once to raid some goblins.

Bit surprised it was actually possible to get that far.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2023, 06:22:07 am by Razzim »
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AvolitionBrit

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Re: The 10,000 Dwarf Challenge.
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2023, 07:24:01 pm »

You can edit population cap in the files pretty easily.
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Razzim

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Re: The 10,000 Dwarf Challenge.
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2023, 07:35:03 pm »

You can edit population cap in the files pretty easily.

Oh you are right, actually I didn't even bother to check that after I heard it's impossible. Changing variables in DFHack's d_init structure was enough.
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King Zultan

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Re: The 10,000 Dwarf Challenge.
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2023, 04:30:13 am »

Dang that's further than I thought anyone would be able to get, is a fort even able to function with that many dwarfs?
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Baprr

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Re: The 10,000 Dwarf Challenge.
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2023, 05:05:01 am »

Result of my attempt - 4987 dorfs at 10fps:

How did you get 5k dwarves? What insanity is this challenge?
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Razzim

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Re: The 10,000 Dwarf Challenge.
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2023, 05:59:01 am »

There's a little description under the screen in the spoiler on how it's done, in case someone wants to try on their own terms without spoiling the fun of discovery.

In case someone wants to read more, I covered my science on huge forts in this topic http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181498.0 and I used the conclusions of it heavily in the challenge.

It's not really a functional fort, their needs are covered by various debug tools:
- debug_noberserk
- debug_nodrink
- debug_noeat
- debug_nomoods
- debug_nosleep

I think their names are self-explainatory.

But hey, the challenge was to get as many dorfs with any hackery possible, not to create a fully functional fort. For a fully functional fort I think the limit would be 2-3k, but I'm still testing that.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2023, 06:03:17 am by Razzim »
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Maloy

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Re: The 10,000 Dwarf Challenge.
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2023, 06:23:14 am »

Just last week I was considering jumping on this challenge

1x1 cells and a lot of dfhack and I was wondering just how far I could get that way before my computer tries to kill me in self defense

Razzim

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Re: The 10,000 Dwarf Challenge.
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2023, 06:36:58 am »

It might be very possible with the use of cages, but eh feels cheaty.
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Eric Blank

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Re: The 10,000 Dwarf Challenge.
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2023, 05:46:36 pm »

Not that much cheater than all the debug scripts combined, to be honest. Would solve the line of sight issue.

You could 9900 dwarves in cages and a functional 100 dorf fort.
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Heretic

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Re: The 10,000 Dwarf Challenge.
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2023, 02:31:06 am »

PTW
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