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[thetimtam]

I really enjoyed the unique struggle that living on the mountainside provides. Being forced into the cavern layer to find wood and grow crops for liquor is a forced restriction that just isn't possible in typical play.

In the old version, DFHack allowed us to embark anywhere.

Could this feature please be grandfathered into the Steam version? The gameplay tab in settings would be the perfect place to put it.

[FantasticDorf]

I think its mostly a concern about unit movement and elevation, if you actually look at the additional screens, mountain elevation differences are extreme and lack any sort of consistent plataeu's even though they're pretty much perfectly livable like DFhack demonstrates to ensure a nice and balanced gameplay embark. Same argument is made for surface ocean starts, which beside from megaprojects is just a rafted bit of dirt created by the DFhack.

Id hope that this would come along with embarking at a cavern underground instead personally as a compromise, with your civ making a tunnel to you so you can still have some contact with the aboveground world in impassable biomes with a guranteed trade/visitor path cutting through cavern terrain. Building a Atlantis/peaked mountain mountain-hall fort, with a connecting bridge to be met by another normal site would be very cool though, because the game does allow realised site connections (using bridges mostly which can actually cross the border tiles of the map)

[thetimtam]

I think its mostly a concern about unit movement and elevation, if you actually look at the additional screens, mountain elevation differences are extreme and lack any sort of consistent plataeu's even though they're pretty much perfectly livable like DFhack demonstrates to ensure a nice and balanced gameplay embark. Same argument is made for surface ocean starts, which beside from megaprojects is just a rafted bit of dirt created by the DFhack.

Id hope that this would come along with embarking at a cavern underground instead personally as a compromise, with your civ making a tunnel to you so you can still have some contact with the aboveground world in impassable biomes with a guranteed trade/visitor path cutting through cavern terrain. Building a Atlantis/peaked mountain mountain-hall fort, with a connecting bridge to be met by another normal site would be very cool though, because the game does allow realised site connections (using bridges mostly which can actually cross the border tiles of the map)

While I understand that steep slopes can exist in mountain embarks and that they do interfere with pathing horribly, many mountain embarks aren't that steep. Often times, the only differentiating factor is the fact that there are no trees, dirt and the location is a high elevation. Though I hadn't considered the fact that technically, your caravan probably shouldn't be capable of reaching a mountain embark location. Skyrim horses meets DF caravans, anyone?

DF has a long-standing reputation for extremely intricate storytelling, freedom of playstyle and the celebration of "losing is fun". So I would have thought that nice and balanced gameplay is less important than the creativity this type of embark this can create. It shouldn't be allowed by default of course, but I don't see the harm in letting us opt into it.

[Salmeuk]

+1. embark limitation is grandfathered in, perhaps to avoid historical crash-causing embarks? the reasoning remains unclear considering DFhack's functionality proves the feasibility

[thetimtam]

+1. embark limitation is grandfathered in, perhaps to avoid historical crash-causing embarks? the reasoning remains unclear considering DFhack's functionality proves the feasibility

A good point. Could also just be that there's been very little need for the functionality. I haven't exactly heard many requests for it and his focus has been on many, many, many other things lmao.

I didn't even think about embark limitation until I tried to embark on a mountain, DFHack is that ingrained into the community

[jecowa]

Another issue is Trade Depot Wagon accessibility. Also having lots of Z-level variation on the surface makes it hard to explore the surface. Imo, it should let us embark on mountains but give us a warning like it does with aquifer embarks.

And the ocean embark sounds cool too. Maybe start on a wooden raft instead of dirt?