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[RoseHeart]

That I didn't notice until now (3+ years later) shows I wasn't closely familiar with them. But I mostly stick to the forum games area anyway. But sometimes our paths would cross, and this place was their home.

Cancel culture sux. As someone with a certain flavor of autism, I often accidentally step out social norms and it scares me to think I'd be perma-banned some day over it.

I see they were banned for bigotry which seems shitty, and I am sure Toady warned them. I'm sure all that good stuff happened.


But I donno man, as fantastically awesome as Bay 12 is (a HUGE part of that being the excellent moderation) Ah, I'd still like to see second chances.

"Banned for X years" is still massive. Maybe that would be enough for some cases.

[hector13]

I was sad to see them go, especially as they were going through a tough period around about the time they got banned, but they broke the rules repeatedly, and Toady can’t play favourites.

[RoseHeart]

In particular, after my breakup with my last girlfriend, I got in trouble with my flirting attempts with women. I'm not as perceptive to social cues of disintrest, I actually got in trouble on one of my communities for sexual harassment claims. I tried to learn from it, but the person I thought might have been an annonymous complainer, had no problem with me and we had a fling. I respect that anonymity of those things, but it makes it hard to learn very specifically where I crossed a line.

It really sucked being blocked from my friends and community, a truly awful experience. And a very vague "remove bad thing" punishment that didn't do much to inform me how to be better.


I'm glad my experience here has been easier going. And I see that the number of bans have gone way down. From 17 in 2016, to 4 in 2020. Maybe that's reflective of a different approach being taken behind the scenes.


I really hate to assume. And I don't want to downplay anyone who felt victimized by someone who was banned. I just know in my own case, if I had been banned for a month, it would have been a huge wake up call. But in my case I wasn't given a chance to prove my intentions.

My brief and infrequent encounters over PMs with Toady over various minor matters has shown me he is very patient, open minded, and understanding. I've even technically broken rules without realizing, and he understood the missunderstanding with a fair warning. Reading/memorizing fine print is a struggle for me.

Community means so much to a person. Even a shithead will reasses if it's taken away.

I was sad to see them go, especially as they were going through a tough period around about the time they got banned, but they broke the rules repeatedly, and Toady can’t play favourites.

I see. Thank you for sharing.

[Vector]

Yeah, my assessment for someone who has been here for a while is that

1. The community has gotten to be much better at self-moderating, meaning, people are more willing to listen to each other in order to maintain the peace

1'. For whatever reason, we're attracting fewer trolls and raids now. Probably because we are a smaller forum and because people who want to mess with others can just use Twitter without much threat of being moderated.

2. It usually takes a whole lot to get banned. Toady gives warnings and mutes whenever that is an option. Not just that, but you usually have to be actively ignoring multiple other users who are telling you that you're crossing the line.

Like, one time I helped someone with their tech problems and they offered me nudes of their girlfriend. Multiple users told them to knock it off, they persisted, they got banned. It's typically not "small" stuff.

[MaxTheFox]

Do not give second chances to bigots. It's a forum. We're not talking about ruining someone's life with prison, at most we're talking about taking a community away. And since they got banned they didn't add much to the community anyways.

If you don't want to get banned, don't break the rules in such a major and repeated way as to get banned.

[nenjin]

Discussing bans tends to get into why people got banned which tends to reignite the conversations that led to them getting themselves banned, which can end up getting other people banned as a result when they get back into it.

But to contribute, I've been on forums....quite a long time. Seen a lot of ways of moderating them. The way Toady does it may be tedious at times, but I've always thought he was fair and I've always thought he's given people a chance to abide by the "don't be a dick" rule when their emotions got the better of them. I've skirted the edges of moderation a few times and felt he gave me a fair shake.

[Rolan7]

I daresay that this forum has had a formative impact on me.  I've been here a long time - I don't mean that as a brag, but to say that it's been an influence on me for a long time.

I learned how to attack a position without attacking the person.  How to disengage and take a breath.  Very often, how to be wrong.

That's not me being wise, that's just the inevitable lesson of posting under a banhammer wielded by a distracted dev.  It is and was always simple - keep things civil.  Don't call people names, just make claims.

You can cite someone's history without calling them a name.  You can call out their behavior without calling them a name.  Those are arguments, which can be contested, and that's discussion.  Keep it civil.

I miss Orange Wizard too though, they seemed cool.  I miss Neonivek as well, controversial opinion.

[Dostoevsky]

I learned how to attack a position without attacking the person.  How to disengage and take a breath.  Very often, how to be wrong.

As an expert in being wrong, I can say that it's a it's a very good skill to have.

(More seriously, it really is good to be able to take a step back from one's own stances/thoughts and give them a critical eye. It's not just the concept of being wrong, but the concept of recognizing it's sometimes not a question of correct or incorrect and more a question of perspective.)

[RoseHeart]

Do not give second chances to bigots. It's a forum. We're not talking about ruining someone's life with prison, at most we're talking about taking a community away. And since they got banned they didn't add much to the community anyways.

If you don't want to get banned, don't break the rules in such a major and repeated way as to get banned.

If someone was raised a bigot, should they suffer the death penalty? Or how about be shunned, until they feel isolated enough to do it themselves?

Learning requires some leniency to make mistakes, does it not? There cannot be change, until the problem presents itself/is identified.

A community is a wonderful place the discover different perspectives. You may not always come in with the best ones.

[MaxTheFox]

Do not give second chances to bigots. It's a forum. We're not talking about ruining someone's life with prison, at most we're talking about taking a community away. And since they got banned they didn't add much to the community anyways.

If you don't want to get banned, don't break the rules in such a major and repeated way as to get banned.

If someone was raised a bigot, should they suffer the death penalty? Or how about be shunned, until they feel isolated enough to do it themselves?

Learning requires some leniency to make mistakes, does it not? There cannot be change, until the problem presents itself/is identified.

The forum isn't real life. A ban isn't the death penalty, it's just being kicked out. If in spite of all warnings they get themselves banned they should really just find another forum. And probably get banned here then because they clearly haven't learned in the ample space Toady gives you.

And there's plenty of lenience, I'm pretty sure you get a few warnings before Toady yeets you. If they still don't learn, they never will learn.

[NullForceOmega]

As I understand it, Toady is actually really lenient when it comes to behavior, and it takes numerous reports and an observable pattern of behavior before he'll drop the hammer on someone.

OW was here for a while before they were removed, and had been warned and told to chill out repeatedly before the ban.

It is only easy to get banned here when you are being actively disruptive to discussions and repeatedly ignore forum etiquette, OW did both in abundance.

[RoseHeart]

Discussing bans tends to get into why people got banned which tends to reignite the conversations that led to them getting themselves banned, which can end up getting other people banned as a result when they get back into it.

Yeah, infact I can already feel myself potentially getting too emotional. Locking topic.