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[Remalle]

With the coming graphical update now seems like a good time to revive a discussion that lost steam years ago, about dwarven vegetation.

Something that DF is currently almost entirely lacking is flowers, and with graphics they seem like a perfect addition. Small unobtrusive wildflowers (and underground mushrooms) can spice up the currently monotone grass fields in a visually pleasing way, and when cultivated in a garden (later) they could become larger and more vibrant with cultivation. Dwarves with the right personality traits (artwork, tranquility, harmony, leisure time, peace, and especially nature) would be able to spend time admiring them and gain a positive thought, and perhaps satisfy a need while they're at it, all while at a higher risk of being stung by a bee.

In order to plant your flowers, mushrooms and even trees, of course you'd need a new option for the Building menu: [P]. From here you could choose to plant a seed, either gathered by an herbalist or traded for, and as long as it's an appropriate tile (same as a farm plot) a dwarf with the grower labour can plant it in the ground. If you don't want to deal with dirt and mud indoors, a small pot (distinct from a large pot but made of any of the same materials) can be placed first to allow the seed to grow. Of course you can only pot a small plant, not a whole tree!

Of course, what's the point of putting down plants if nobody's going out of their way to admire them? That's what the new Garden location is for. Assigned the same way as any other location, gardens (or orchards if they're filled with planted trees) require containers to put seeds and fertilizer in, and can have gardeners assigned as an occupation. Dwarves will hang out in gardens when they want to fulfill their needs to admire or spend time among nature, without having to risk wandering out into the wilderness. Once there they may decide to spend time in solitude or they may occasionally throw a garden party with music and dancing. They will generally take care not to trample on any of the planted vegetation, though be careful of any dwarves with pets, because their pets will have no such compunctions! On the other hand, cats will keep the vermin population down too, as bees aren't the only vermin that love to hang out in your gardens.

That's all I've got on this topic for now. Thanks for reading!

[Azerty]

Excellent idea.

We could even mix it with the statue gardens.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Sounds good. Toady mentioned a long time ago about wanting to add... whatever it is you call making an orchard. Flower gardening would go nicely along with that.

[NW_Kohaku]

Amusing that the first time I come back to Bay12 in 2-3 years, the first thread I see on the front page involves reviving the farming threads.

The concept of orchards and flower gardens was discussed, if only in passing back in the Improved Farming Rebooted thread in this post, although I always approached it from the point of view that, rather than doing it just for the player's own aesthetic benefit, it was for the dwarves' benefit.  I.E. a noble dwarf might demand sculpted bioluminescent mushroom gardens in their estate rather than just windows and more chests.  (That is more of a Class Warfare thread thing, though.)

On that note, I think it's worth considering you could make such things not just grow on a floor tile, but a wall tile, being a sort of alternative to engravings that might require more care (professional gardener dwarf attention) but carry more prestige/value when well-tended.

Orchards in particular I held up as an alternative to regular crops for being less labor-intensive once set up.  That is, trees don't need dwarves plowing the fields every year, and need less fertilizer maintenance (presuming we have the Improved Farming NPK ratings), but take up much more space for the food they produce.  Of course, having orchards implies having tree farms where you deliberately grow wood, which may be a more pressing concern for many players, especially ones in a desert or tundra without coal.

(Also, I'm not sure discussion so much "lost steam" as those of us involved kind of explored every topic we could think of, and those who weren't part of it just were scared off by the sheer volume of text when I compiled all the things we'd discussed in the Rebooted thread.  It doesn't help that Toady has kept it on the development plan for a decade, now without doing anything but the procedural plants as he adds more things to the list faster than he takes them off.  The conversation would undoubtably advance if there was more concrete information we could go off of to advance from a theoretical to a practical discussion.)

[FantasticDorf]

I.E. a noble dwarf might demand sculpted bioluminescent mushroom gardens in their estate rather than just windows and more chests.

On that note, I think it's worth considering you could make such things not just grow on a floor tile, but a wall tile, being a sort of alternative to engravings that might require more care (professional gardener dwarf attention) but carry more prestige/value when well-tended.

Orchards in particular I held up as an alternative to regular crops for being less labor-intensive once set up.  That is, trees don't need dwarves plowing the fields every year, and need less fertilizer maintenance (presuming we have the Improved Farming NPK ratings), but take up much more space for the food they produce.  Of course, having orchards implies having tree farms where you deliberately grow wood, which may be a more pressing concern for many players, especially ones in a desert or tundra without coal.

without having to risk wandering out into the wilderness.

Sold.

In limited experience of having a elf fortress modded in (its a lot of work) and when time allows it long term elven visitors; this suggestion should really be ranked higher along with being tagged onto needs adjustments Toady is/was (in part of the steam workload maybe being dominant for lack of more news) already looking at for the well defined points that have been brough up so far.

• Many elves with high natural desires carry life-wishes to travel to see the wild places, and placating them with a maximum sized temple-garden would be a very popular safe haven as nature appreciation is a common trait (outside of dwarven fortresses anyway).

• Sizable tracts of secured land can be dedicated to pointless wandering needs as citizens folly through the safe confines, fufilling yet another need and putting them in a activity state of mind to periodically stop and acknowledge things/socialize & chat in the statue garden/natural garden

• Hunters could be set to prioritize gardens to stalk the grounds safely if there is prey to be found ((and released for leisure safely along the trap laiden woods))

[NW_Kohaku]

In limited experience of having a elf fortress modded in (its a lot of work) and when time allows it long term elven visitors; this suggestion should really be ranked higher along with being tagged onto needs adjustments Toady is/was (in part of the steam workload maybe being dominant for lack of more news) already looking at for the well defined points that have been brough up so far.

It already is.  8th place in Eternal Voting, which went up on the development list, but of which, only minecarts, wheelbarrows, and some of the Adventurer stuff were the only "feature" things actually added.  Toady said he'd work on those around 2010, but he's been adding things to the list faster than he takes them off, so Eternal Suggestions Voting really lives up to the "Eternal" part of its name.  (Although I guess with Steam support, you can say he's currently working on things like Interface and Graphics support, so it's stuff on the voting list he's working on now.  It's just also the most technical, slowest-to-complete stuff.)

The Improved Farming Rebooted thread, in fact, was in large part focused upon working out how to accomplish all the goals Toady had already said he wanted to accomplish.