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Author Topic: Weapon Speeds in Adventure  (Read 2647 times)

Leonidas

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Weapon Speeds in Adventure
« on: May 18, 2020, 02:11:15 pm »

I'm not asking about weapon velocity. I mean time to strike. Do the different weapons take different numbers of ticks between initiating a strike and landing it? And what about weapons with different types of attacks, such as the short sword?
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Bumber

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Re: Weapon Speeds in Adventure
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2020, 02:53:25 pm »

Every weapon takes 3 ticks no matter what, except whips, which take 4.
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Sarmatian123

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Re: Weapon Speeds in Adventure
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2020, 03:44:16 am »

Battle Ax is a tool and a weapon in the same time. So, I always prefer battle ax made from steel.

During combat, the ticks are kind of fixed. So, if you can press "." and wait for enemy to present itself for a hit, then do it. It will rest you too.

I once walked through Dark Tower, while cutting heads off from 500 Trolls. It did not improve the lag, but I got out of the Dark Tower unharmed, after killing its demon. If you can sneak behind (even a demon), then you get for free 1 hit. Make it hardest and long time taking one. There will not be any action taken, until after this hit was made. Then I suggest with demons at least to just fast-scratch 'em constantly and look for fast and sure hits. Learn dodging to legendary! Dodging back and to a side allows you to dance with your opponent in a circle.

I like also spears. 3 spears usually are lighter then 25 arrows, but when hey hit, the hits are final. Slightly less range with them though, then with arrows. This does not matter, as birds landing down and resting in mid-air, are invulnerable targets anyhow. What a nasty animal bug.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 03:51:59 am by Sarmatian123 »
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Leonidas

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Re: Weapon Speeds in Adventure
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2020, 10:44:42 pm »

I once walked through Dark Tower, while cutting heads off from 500 Trolls. It did not improve the lag, but I got out of the Dark Tower unharmed, after killing its demon. If you can sneak behind (even a demon), then you get for free 1 hit. Make it hardest and long time taking one. There will not be any action taken, until after this hit was made. Then I suggest with demons at least to just fast-scratch 'em constantly and look for fast and sure hits. Learn dodging to legendary! Dodging back and to a side allows you to dance with your opponent in a circle.
What race did you do that with?
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Sarmatian123

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Re: Weapon Speeds in Adventure
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2020, 08:49:55 am »

I once walked through Dark Tower, while cutting heads off from 500 Trolls. It did not improve the lag, but I got out of the Dark Tower unharmed, after killing its demon. If you can sneak behind (even a demon), then you get for free 1 hit. Make it hardest and long time taking one. There will not be any action taken, until after this hit was made. Then I suggest with demons at least to just fast-scratch 'em constantly and look for fast and sure hits. Learn dodging to legendary! Dodging back and to a side allows you to dance with your opponent in a circle.
What race did you do that with?
Peasant Dwarf.
Though, due limiting his needs just to crafting something and one other similar need, I could make him totally focused for 2 days by smashing 2 stones together to make 1 sharp stone. There were few touch-and-go moments, when I couldn't often enough press "." for resting and he was getting tired. Still through entire fight in Dark Fortress (the way in was a fight too, though not so extreme) he was in a fighting trance.
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peasant cretin

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Re: Weapon Speeds in Adventure
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2020, 03:14:31 pm »

RAWs: most weapons and natural attacks (punches, bites, gores, etc) are ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3 which is to say 6 ticks long in terms of time. Two exceptions to this, kicks and whip attacks, are ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:4:4.

Aimed (strike) attacks will add or subtract from the PREPARE_AND_RECOVER.

The types of aimed weapon/natural attacks are:
Quick Attack  subtracts 1 tick from both the PREPARE_AND_RECOVER
Standard Attack  does not add or subtract anything from PREPARE_AND_RECOVER
Heavy Attack  will add 1 tick to both the PREPARE_AND_RECOVER
Precise Attack  will add *2* ticks to the PREPARE and 0 ticks to RECOVER
Wild Attack  subtracts 1 tick from the PREPARE, but adds *2* ticks to RECOVER

(The above information can be confirmed by "see-it-yourselfers" by testing this in arena mode, or by readers here in Dwarf Fortress Talk 21.)

While wrestling based attacks can target a body part, their tick cost cannot be modified. Grab for instance, has a PREPARE_AND_RECOVER of 2:2. This is its fixed speed. The other grappling moves may cost 1:1(?). Not entirely sure about that.

So, the fastest offensive maneuver (whether Quick Attack or Grab) will have a PREPARE_AND_RECOVER of 2:2, while the slowest will be some type of modified kick/whip attack.

Also, to pass time, the period key "." = 10 ticks, while the comma key "," = 1 tick.
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Leonidas

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Re: Weapon Speeds in Adventure
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2020, 11:31:59 am »

RAWs: most weapons and natural attacks (punches, bites, gores, etc) are ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3 which is to say 6 ticks long in terms of time. Two exceptions to this, kicks and whip attacks, are ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:4:4.

Aimed (strike) attacks will add or subtract from the PREPARE_AND_RECOVER.

The types of aimed weapon/natural attacks are:
Quick Attack  subtracts 1 tick from both the PREPARE_AND_RECOVER
Standard Attack  does not add or subtract anything from PREPARE_AND_RECOVER
Heavy Attack  will add 1 tick to both the PREPARE_AND_RECOVER
Precise Attack  will add *2* ticks to the PREPARE and 0 ticks to RECOVER
Wild Attack  subtracts 1 tick from the PREPARE, but adds *2* ticks to RECOVER

(The above information can be confirmed by "see-it-yourselfers" by testing this in arena mode, or by readers here in Dwarf Fortress Talk 21.)

While wrestling based attacks can target a body part, their tick cost cannot be modified. Grab for instance, has a PREPARE_AND_RECOVER of 2:2. This is its fixed speed. The other grappling moves may cost 1:1(?). Not entirely sure about that.
That's terrific information. It should be in the wiki.

What about other actions, like dodging or equipping a new weapon?
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peasant cretin

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Re: Weapon Speeds in Adventure
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2020, 08:16:32 pm »

Some additional info:

Damage/power values from Toady's DF Talk 21: http://www.bay12games.com/media/df_talk_21_transcript.html and Urist Da Vinci's incredibly useful Combat mechanics (pulping) and material/creature properties [0.40.xx] thread http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=142372.msg5580805#msg5580805 have mostly overlapping info.

Here's Urist Da Vinci's:
Quick Attack subtracts 1 tick from both the PREPARE_AND_RECOVER --> Momentum x0.5
Standard Attack does not add or subtract anything from PREPARE_AND_RECOVER --> Momentum +/-0
Heavy Attack will add 1 tick to both the PREPARE_AND_RECOVER --> Momentum x1.5
***Precise Attack will add ~2~ ticks to the PREPARE and 0 ticks to RECOVER --> Momentum is same as standard
Wild Attack subtracts 1 tick from the PREPARE, but adds *2* ticks to RECOVER  --> Momentum x1.5


***The main area where Toady and Urist Da Vinci differ is over precise attack's damage boost.

Normal weapon use momentum numbers appear in line with 0.34.11, except that there appears to be an additional x2 multiplier on top of everything if the opponent is prone.
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peasant cretin

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Re: Weapon Speeds in Adventure
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2020, 08:17:55 pm »

What about other actions, like dodging or equipping a new weapon?

Dunno about equip. Murphy spaded out tick count for Defense here.
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FakerFangirl

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Re: Weapon Speeds in Adventure
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2020, 05:48:11 am »

Is there some mod or update which limits the number of weapons I can simultaneously attack with?
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