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[joostheger]

I have a waterproject, in which I need my minecarts pick up water, and head back without being powered by rollers. I set myself some limitatons.
I know the speed needed to climb up a slope is about 5000, I need to be under 10.000 to pick up water, so i have to ride through the water with a speed of 6000 - 9000.
Problem is, when the water is at a level of 7, the extra drag causes another 10.000 of friction, so the waterlevel must be exactly 6 / 7

I tried something with hatches and pressureplates and it's working almost fine. However, the tiles are always something like

Code: [Select]

6 6 6
7 6 7
6 6 7

so a little to much.

Who can help me building an unpowered system, which can manage the waterlevel at exactly 6 / 7?

[Gigaz]

Use two minecarts. The first one is submerged and stationary. The second one comes in, pushes the first one onto a roller for further transport, and stops, taking the place of the first minecart.

[Bumber]

Use two minecarts. The first one is submerged and stationary. The second one comes in, pushes the first one onto a roller for further transport, and stops, taking the place of the first minecart.

without being powered by rollers

Can you get the minecart up the ramp using just the collision? (And without shotgunning the water out of the first cart.)

Water trough won't have to be as long if the first minecart can just sit in it.

[PatrikLundell]

Use two minecarts. The first one is submerged and stationary. The second one comes in, pushes the first one onto a roller for further transport, and stops, taking the place of the first minecart.

without being powered by rollers

Can you get the minecart up the ramp using just the collision? (And without shotgunning the water out of the first cart.)

Water trough won't have to be as long if the first minecart can just sit in it.

Impulse ramp paired with a bump replacement? (unless that's considered powered according to joostheger's restrictions). Note that it's a guess, as I haven't tried.

[anewaname]

You need the water to stay at 6/7 constantly? What about Fill Pond?

[joostheger]

bump replacement sounds interesting! I'll try that.

The story is this: I have a fort which can be completely seperated from the outside world, by a 3 tiles wide chasm, and drawbridges. I plan to have chasm go all the way down to the caverns. The fortress need to be a self-sufficient as possible. Using the aquifier feels like cheeting. So watersupply is here a problem.
I want to be able to take water in from the outside, but all connections must be cutted of in case of a siege. So my watersource need to be able to jump the gap of 3 tiles. Also, this fortress must be the only 'cilivised' structure, so no intelligent structures outside its walls. So I cannot make a powered system outside. I've tried let it flow over the bridge, but it goes sideways into the chasm, even when its under pressure. The only way I can see this work, is crossing a drawbridge with minecarts, pick up water, and then return.

But as soon as the minecarts goes into the water, it slows down. It has to have a maximum speed of 10.000 in order to be able to pick up water, and it need to has a minimum speed of 5000 to climb out the fill-pit. Also, water of level 7/7 slows it down to much, Even with the highest pickup-speed possible. It only works when the level is exactly 6/7, but this is very hard to maintain with an automated but unpowered system.

Also what I tried, is standing under a waterfall: the minecart wont fill up. And I tried to ride down a slope, which is flooded with water on the top, but in this case, the water doesn't have the minimum depth of 6/7, so the minecart wont will up either.

Here are my rules:
- no exploits, so no impulsramp or infinte watergenerator, or other infinite stuff
- no infinite aquifer watersource.
- no powered system outside the walls,
- need to be closed off completely in case of a siege.
- What I will allow is an 'intelligent' system, using pressureplates, floodgates and floorhatches and stuff, but rather not.

[Staalo]

That's a tough challenge. When I have had a similar need for a fixed waterlevel, I have just dumped a room full of water, via a retracting bridge or similar, to a slightly larger room so that the volume of water equalizes into a certain height. For instance, a six-square room full of 7/7 water fills a seven-square room up to 6/7 very neatly.

Perhaps it would be possible to reset the waterlevel after every minecart visit with few smartly placed pressure plates.

[mightymushroom]

Similarly, a seven-square room with water removed by a closing door or bridge would equalize to 6/7 after re-opening. I don't know if you would consider intentionally disappearing water as an exploit under those rules.

It would eliminate the need to drain existing water not picked up by the cart(s) so that the "measuring cup" doesn't overfill; instead you just need to refill the pick up basin to 7/7 which is usually trivial.

------

Hmm, suppose your cart route is designed such that a cart stops on a closed hatch that can be isolated as a 1x1 space (falls into a shaft, maybe). You then drop 6-7/7 water onto the cart tile, the minecart picks up 2/7 and the rest is excess. Now open the hatch and the cart drops onto a ramp and accelerates back into your fortress. If the tunnel is narrow and long enough the cart should outrun the water before flow can push it off course. The excess water either evaporates or dribbles harmlessly into the gap.

------

No offense meant, but I'm not sure why minecarts are the only solution here. Dwarfs with buckets filling an internal reservoir would be easier to set up, cross bridges without difficulty most of the time, and don't need fancy water level systems to function.

[Gigaz]

There is one easy way to solve your challenge: a murky pool will fill up when it rains.

You can also build a fountain that fills water from above into your fortress through a grate.

[Bumber]

You can also build a fountain that fills water from above into your fortress through a grate.

Like this?

[Fleeting Frames]

You're not quite correct about water friction: The extra drag acts like supersonic limiter, expect with limit being 10k instead of 270k speed; a long line of impulse ramps in 7/7 water can easily demonstrate this: the minecart moves at constant slow speed rather than stay still.

Additionally, if that line ends in non-accelerating ramp, the minecart exits on its own, as it doesn't need to climb.

Though for something smaller, taking a note from minimal watergun to manage entry speed with single submerged non-accelerating ramp would do.


OTOH, if you consider accelerating slopes as exploits and non-accelerating ramps as exploits you can't use ramp to exit period as that covers all possible ramp cases, and would need to use something like bridge repeater to throw carts out of water instead.

[Gigaz]

Like this?

Yeah, that's what I had in mind.

[knutor]

fill a tube full to 7/7
tube of dimensions 7wx1hx1z
atomize one full waterblock
drain to the same dimensions tube in short proximity using a center spill hole
 7wide x 1high x 1z-level, should thereby have a  result of 6/7 in new tube in theory,
 time to rebalance pools,
must be included in cart path cycle,
reseting 6/7 pools from scratch
may be time inefficient

[joostheger]

guys, such great ideas! thanks a lot!
I'll see whats working in my scenario.