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[HrumpfOfDoom]

I have found adamantium, and I had a dwarf in a foul mood make a platinum morning star (I added them as a recipe, personal preference). Then I got a weird bit of luck and three more platinum morning stars of exceptional quality were in the next caravan. So I am making the best equipped military I can. Adamantium breastplates, helm gantlets etc. But I have read that Adamantium is a poor choice for the mail shirt under. What metal is best for mail shirts, with a good breastplate over it? or in other words, what would be your ideal armor materials? I've read the wiki, but I can't really get a straight answer. Is density the single most important characteristic for mail shirts under plate?

[Broms]

Usually you can't go wrong with steel armor and candy weapons. Steel being the most resistant to slashing etc, and adamantine being the sharpest and lightest metal.

[PatrikLundell]

Right or wrong, I aim for candy chain helmet, high boots, greaves, and gauntlets, with a steel breastplate. As far as I understand the chain would be the superior protection against slash and pierce weapons (but Broms might be right), while adamantine is nearly useless against blunt attacks.
However, the first priority for the use of adamantine should be to use it for slash and pierce weapons, with armor only considered after that. Steel is a solid armor choice.

[Sarmatian123]

It seems to me chain mail covers the same areas that both breastplate and graves/leggings cover too. So doing steel chain mail is best? Interesting. In past I was doing all armor in adamantine for the weight sake.

[HrumpfOfDoom]

I read in one post (looking for a different answer) that copper is best for the chain mail shirt due to it's density absorbing blunt damage after the breastplate turned the cutting into blunt. That seems backwards, hence my question.

[PatrikLundell]

I read in one post (looking for a different answer) that copper is best for the chain mail shirt due to it's density absorbing blunt damage after the breastplate turned the cutting into blunt. That seems backwards, hence my question.

Haven't seen copper being recommended for anything before. It's usually considered to better than non metal, but that's it, with other metals at least having some points at which they are (although bronze always seem to be considered to be inferior to steel, with the only advantage being a larger abundance and less labor intensive production process).

[Ziusudra]

https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Material_science#Material_and_item_properties

Chain mail cannot block attacks via momentum cost thresholds; it still can blunt slashing attacks and then deflect them. Thus, the best defence can be reached by wearing dense (like copper) mail shirt under a rigid (like candy) one.

But that is assuming copper survives the attack and converts it to blunt. A steel edged attack will likely just cut through cooper chain. Steel is only a little less dense than copper but much more durable and more likely to convert the damage. But Ideal might be copper chain under candy chain under candy plate, though I don't know if fort dwarves can still be made to stack chain. Unless you can get platinum chain through moods or mods.

[anewaname]

I read in one post (looking for a different answer) that copper is best for the chain mail shirt due to it's density absorbing blunt damage after the breastplate turned the cutting into blunt. That seems backwards, hence my question.

I recall a post recommending three copper mail shirts under candy breastplate. My thoughts on this match Ziusudra's... For my forts, the 15% density difference is not enough to choose copper mail over steel mail due to the durability of steel (I only attempt to use one mail shirt and suspect there is a chance of the breastplate armor layer being bypassed because in some combat reports, there was no mention of the outer layer being struck). But, I do not have research data of my own or of others to back this up. I do believe the density of the armor layer matters for the purpose of mitigating applied force, but again, do not have research on this.

[Ulfarr]

If the info in that aritcle is correct then trying to maximize blunt damage protection on mail shirts is a bit of a moot point. Since mail armor doesn't reduce the momentum due to the [STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_CHAIN_ALL] token then the only protection it can offer is by deflecting the hit in the first place.

According to the article, an attack can be deflected if  Da / IYw  > 2 * Sw / A  and for maces and warhammers that means that they can't be deflected because no combination of (vanilla) weapon/armor materials can surpass their deflection threshold.

edit: doing this for all weapon types is going to be too much, but here are my calculations on a few of them.

Spoiler: weapon vs armor material (click to show/hide)

[Josher]

https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Material_science#Material_and_item_properties

Chain mail cannot block attacks via momentum cost thresholds; it still can blunt slashing attacks and then deflect them. Thus, the best defence can be reached by wearing dense (like copper) mail shirt under a rigid (like candy) one.

But that is assuming copper survives the attack and converts it to blunt. A steel edged attack will likely just cut through cooper chain. Steel is only a little less dense than copper but much more durable and more likely to convert the damage. But Ideal might be copper chain under candy chain under candy plate, though I don't know if fort dwarves can still be made to stack chain. Unless you can get platinum chain through moods or mods.

That page is super interesting! I don't know why I hadn't seen it before.

There are a few things there that seem to fly in the face of advice given in the wiki... For example, it seems to be suggesting that non-magical metal bolts are all fired with the same momentum. Which means that more dense bolts such as copper and silver will be significantly worse than steel because steel is better for making edged weapons.

Also, am I correct in understanding that as far as armor goes, there is no defense at all against maces/warhammers? If so, presumably this might generalize to even scarier impacts such as a bronze colossus fist?

[anewaname]

...
Also, am I correct in understanding that as far as armor goes, there is no defense at all against maces/warhammers? If so, presumably this might generalize to even scarier impacts such as a bronze colossus fist?

I believe that each layer of armor reduces momentum somewhat, and that the amount of reduction is related to the density or weight of the layer, and that this is why some players suggest three copper mail shirts are the better under-layer. That wiki article says, "The attack generally needs some momentum threshold to break through each armor/tissue layer. If the attack is edged, it also can cut through it instead", which could imply that the momentum threshold is the amount of the reduction, and further on it says, "Blunt attacks can be entirely deflected by armor if weapon's IMPACT_YIELD is especially low relative to armor's density".

I also suspect that [SHAPED] armor may provide a further benefit by effectively increasing the contact area, but this is something that is just the result of my pondering about the topic without doing enough of the math.

[Fleeting Frames]

Yeah, armor pages on wiki are bit of a mess; I've asked questions on it before.

Regarding bolts, their latest testing was from DF2012 I guess, when they were less weak blinkers and more "six dwarves can set up an enfilade and handle entire siege with no fortifications" (things have changed). The impact of steel would have been same then, but a major change since then has been that now enemies come fully armored.

[SHAPED] doesn't to my knowledge affect things in itself, but it's addition means you can only wear one covering of blunt-deflection-capable piece (helm, gauntlets, breastplate, greaves, high boots) as more wouldn't either fit or would be forbidden. Material science page suggests steel plate has best blunt blocking values as far as armor-grade metals go, which would mean steel plate over ady mail would be best. IDK where helmets and other pieces which are immediate skin underneath stand. vs scratch attacks of large beasts.