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[Rumrusher]

Erm... Stealing doesn't work anymore, so not sure how to get thief now... That was... anti-climactic.

I did discover how poetry forms are learned(just listen) and that the monks you see passing in hamlets by are basically window dressing.

you might still get this by picking up an artifact... which includes books(but not copies).

[FantasticDorf]

It would seem that hated group, bandits and quest generated occupiers all have reputation tags, but they don't work because of the maladies of broken quests (a group that can never be routed from a site, unable to prove the bandit is dead without bringing its corpse directly to the quest giver and civilians reacting violently to killing bandits like they were also civilians)

It should probably be the case that hostile nations for reasons like babysnatching should also carry reputations as diplomats will spit at your own fortress members on visiting, but there's not much further way to validate whether it needs a response to invaders from dwarves in return. If you play as a goblin civ nation adventurer and walk into a dwarf town in peacetime, they'll always describe your race's worst assets like being consumed by hate so maybe the effective change is not present in fortress mode.

I havent actually tried trying to buy dwarven equipment though from a goblin adventurer's perspective, and whether the reputation system experienced by discounts to famous heroes is the same or whether dwarves mark up/make goods inacessible.

[Untrustedlife]

It would seem that hated group, bandits and quest generated occupiers all have reputation tags, but they don't work because of the maladies of broken quests (a group that can never be routed from a site, unable to prove the bandit is dead without bringing its corpse directly to the quest giver and civilians reacting violently to killing bandits like they were also civilians)

I havent seen number 2, i have always gotten the reputation from killing bandits.

However, Criminals (which are different from bandits ) do get impacted by number 3, they always think you are a murderer when you do that in a city and that bug has really impacted my enjoyment of cities.

[therahedwig]

I think in the case of criminals you really need to force them to yield? (So, that means brawling, disarming, punching them in the stomach and K-shouting 'YIELD!' in combat) I've been able to get rid of criminals harassing people in a hamlet this way...

[Rumrusher]

It would seem that hated group, bandits and quest generated occupiers all have reputation tags, but they don't work because of the maladies of broken quests (a group that can never be routed from a site, unable to prove the bandit is dead without bringing its corpse directly to the quest giver and civilians reacting violently to killing bandits like they were also civilians)

I havent seen number 2, i have always gotten the reputation from killing bandits.

However, Criminals (which are different from bandits ) do get impacted by number 3, they always think you are a murderer when you do that in a city and that bug has really impacted my enjoyment of cities.

well I figure that's because cities have ethics that react differently to events like those. and bringing a dead body straight to them with no context of the body would bring the worst logic into it.

like the way folks remember stuff the rep system isn't going to instantly give a reminder to folks of what you did each time you greet them, so to look like a hero you kinda need to bring up dirt on your kills, which means getting the adventurer to learn of the events the bandits did and telling those events to others to justify their death, like most folks in cities are close off from the outside world including the rumors they give out, they don't even know of the events they tell you or what creature the folks in the rumor are. so with my studies I mostly see the rep system as the relationship system and you need to butter up npcs and npcs tend to only know what is in front of them or know nothing at all.

like completing these rumors you're basically banking on if the person you tell this news to gets a grim satisfaction on someone's demise, which usually happens if said person is an enemy of their civ and or the person being told knows about the rep of the dead person before being told they died.

[therahedwig]

BTW, Rumrusher, do you have any idea whether it is possible to use dfhack's lua api to find the relationship and knowledge about people and sites and events? Or have you been bodyswapping to find find this info?

I haven't really gone after thief yet, but did notice my adventurer took some books(I... forgot about them, honestly), and while this was in an overcrowded library and legends say the items were 'stolen', there is no associated entity rep. I have also seen a different histfig 'stealing' artifacts, but only being known as a legendary treasure hunter, despite never handing the artifacts over. I am going to try this with an adv and see if it makes me a treasure hunter or a thief... (It was a goblin civ, so it might be goblin ethics just mean there's no thief rep associated with these kinds of things)

[Rumrusher]

BTW, Rumrusher, do you have any idea whether it is possible to use dfhack's lua api to find the relationship and knowledge about people and sites and events? Or have you been bodyswapping to find find this info?

I haven't really gone after thief yet, but did notice my adventurer took some books(I... forgot about them, honestly), and while this was in an overcrowded library and legends say the items were 'stolen', there is no associated entity rep. I have also seen a different histfig 'stealing' artifacts, but only being known as a legendary treasure hunter, despite never handing the artifacts over. I am going to try this with an adv and see if it makes me a treasure hunter or a thief... (It was a goblin civ, so it might be goblin ethics just mean there's no thief rep associated with these kinds of things)

I only used body swapping once to confirm if there any differences between historical figure's bestiaries which surprisingly their are.
the rest was mostly from talking to folks to get an understanding on how they felt about the adventurer and checking their unit and historical figure data. I think Max went further into modifying it. the rep system seems to be an person to person thing and connected to fort mode relationship menu and not universally tied. that said having seen a werebeast become enemy of a bunch of sites I guess it's possible to end up getting a title like that for a site vs getting a rep for a person you just talk to.

[therahedwig]

Hm, yeah, that was my experience too. Pity, I had wanted to do a bit more book science in regards to whether a chronicle actually teaches the events, or only about the entity and it would've been nice if I didn't have to generate an outsider for that.

Anyway, I've tried stealing artifacts, books, and $items$ , and none of them gave my adventurers thief rep. Looking at the legends mode, prolific kobolds also don't seem to end up with thief rep... So my conclusion is that it's just not possible to really steal stuff in the current release... (Though, if you have an artifact, you might get shadowed by questers/guards while you walk off with it.)

I've added our best guesses at the remaining entries as 'needs verification' so that at the very least people have an idea where to begin testing.

BTW, you get protector of the defenseless(which I guess is low protector of the weak?) from people if you brawl with a bandit and completely fail to do anything about them, but get out alive. So it doesn't actually require killing anyone...

[FantasticDorf]

Anyway, I've tried stealing artifacts, books, and $items$ , and none of them gave my adventurers thief rep. Looking at the legends mode, prolific kobolds also don't seem to end up with thief rep... So my conclusion is that it's just not possible to really steal stuff in the current release... (Though, if you have an artifact, you might get shadowed by questers/guards while you walk off with it.)

Goblins do regard stealing as personal matters and therefore some sort of minimal or situational crime, but they aren't so much anybody's property for the piles of armor they have lying around that you can just walk off with and wear there and then instead of being caught with a trinket in hand by the right reputational antagonist to the theif reputation you've just gained.

• Doing much of the groundwork yourself, if you added militia squads to run around as hearth people to defend the tower, they'd probably roll against their view of the law which is pretty poor ironically enough in most cases to let you go if they weren't obliged to see that as the property of their liege. I dont quite know how ownership of piles work.

So yeah it seems like it'd be unimportant even if it was implemented correctly. Could be relevant in the future for players who often reserve objects in retired fortresses for adventurers to pick up later, which doesn't alert the guards or make the citizens go hostile or report you to the authorities.

If you spawn in a unlaggy site that's mostly profitable (additionally helped by behind the scenes modding to give them some economy with caravans via using beak dogs or other creatures for trade) these piles are common between the lower statue rooms. The gear is kind of tacky but has a lot of cool personalised goblin art over it, so i recommend cherrypicking anything with expensive decorations in silver and gold, or that'll protect you at least from bandits. (probably your fellow goblins)

[Superdorf]

Spoiler: Intruder (click to show/hide)

Obtained (apparently) by "identifying yourself" to a hostile group.

[therahedwig]

Resurrecting this: I found that failing to flatter someone repeatedly got me the 'you're a flatterer' reputation. I also got 'preacher' style reputation from doing sermons. I wonder if comedian and pacifier also get rep-types?