Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Using the Tavern as a Barracks: A Research Attempt  (Read 2834 times)

Liquidpip

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Using the Tavern as a Barracks: A Research Attempt
« on: December 17, 2020, 11:00:40 am »

Previously, I assigned a barracks at the tavern in an attempt to manage guests that turned out to have werebeast curses. I found that the military dwarves will also watch performances and socialize while training. I have started a new fort in an attempt to further research the benefits of using the tavern as a barracks for training. I don't know how to use the object testing arena, so this is the "vanilla" fortress mode.

Worldgen:
- No werebeasts, to reduce the distractions of observing loyalty cascades instead of the actual objective.
- No vampires, to reduce the risk of losing research subjects
- 300 Years of history
- A lot of necromancers for some reason
- Mineral scarcity at 100 to quickly establish a military training ground

Embark:
- A tactician dwarf that will remain training forever and ever. Control for how much socializing is done.
- Joyous Wilds for unicorns, because who doesn't love unicorns
- 50 population cap for a focused group.
- Humans, elves, and goblin neighbors. (The goblins disappeared right after embarking for some reason)

Tavern:
- 11x11 room with a 7x11 dance floor and over 100+ instruments, because distractions.
- An armor stand in the corner to assign the barracks of approximately a quarter of the room.
- All visitors welcome

Squad:
- The poor commander that would never leave her military duty. Swordsdwarf.
- 2 Axedwarves.
- 2 Hammer dwarves
- 2 Spear dwarves
- They all ascend to lords and masters.

Observed advantages:
- Military dwarves will socialize while also training, giving them happy thoughts and deadly skills.
- No need to periodically give military vacations, because they're always in the tavern and having fun (the less exciting one).
- If you usually put your artifacts in the tavern to be admired, having a room full of legendary observers ensures none will ever be stolen reduces the risk of theft. 5 10 attempts have been caught, with no 1 successful attempt found (by none other than the captain of the guard himself, because of course.)
- Non-military dwarves will also train their Observer skill, further decreasing the chance of an artifact being stolen or an ambush. A farmer with a legendary Observer skill has been found by doing nothing but planting seeds and singing in the tavern.
- Hypothetically, Proven, if the military dwarves are the thieves, their armor would sustain their beatings. Providing you're kind enough to give them armor. And you didn't appoint a legendary fighter as a fortress guard.
- Increased frequency of sparring cats.
- Soldiers have friends. Friendship is magic.
+ Since they're in the tavern all the time, they'll be the most likely candidate to be corrupted and therefore the ones to commit crimes. With the added point above, it will reduce the overall number of injuries from beatings.

Observed disadvantages:
- The dance floor will always be partially full. Not good if you want those fancy 20-dwarf dance numbers.
- Slow response to any threat, providing the tavern is safely placed in the fortress and not used to deliberately take advantage of outsiders.
- Soldiers will get cave adaptation, providing the tavern is safely placed inside and not deliberately used to take advantage of outsiders.
- The tavern cannot be used to deliberately take advantage of outsiders, because your military should otherwise also be expendable, which I don't think is the point if you go to the extent of taking care of their mental health.
- The tavern keeper will provide booze for the military and will kill them with alcohol poisoning. (For research purposes the save file was reloaded before this happened, thus maintaining the same control group.)
- Military dwarves will not make friends among themselves. Socializing is observed to only occur with creatures outside of the active squad.
- A soldier with a very quirky personality may get into arguments with absolutely everyone, which is the exact opposite of what we wanted.
- Soldiers have friends. Not exactly good for people constantly in mortal danger.
+ Your soldiers will become socialites. One of them will inevitably become the mayor, which isn't good for unhappy citizens because their active military state means they'll reject crying/shouting meetings and make sad dwarves even sadder.
+ Legendary observers mean that they'll be able to see everything from an entire screen's height away. A carpenter struck by horror of a dying giantess from an entire screen's height away was observed.

Other things to note:
- Socializing and watching performances, for the soldiers, are not observed to be initiated during a sparring session or during the "wait for x demonstration." It does, however, if the performer/friend initiates the activity before the sparring session.
- Soldiers will not perform. They will only watch.
- Having the tavern full of people is not observed to reduce the frequency of sparring sessions.
- Weapon/shield attachment is not observed to be affected.
- Tavern brawls are not observed to cause a loyalty cascade.
- Two different squads training at the same time are not observed to socialize with each other. Non-soldiers are needed for the benefits to work.
+ The socializing activity will only be initiated if the soldiers are inside the tavern. Watching performances, however, is observed to only be limited by vision. It is therefore possible to put your barracks separate from the tavern and still have them watch performances if they can see the performing creatures.
+ The same tactic does not work for temples and fulfilling religious needs.

For further research
- It has not been observed if an active military unit is susceptible to corruption from outsiders. Further research required.
- Intoxicated soldiers have not been observed to start a brawl. Research is needed on what fun would occur during that.
- It is not yet known if the Observer skill is trained to non-soldiers by the sparring session and/or the demonstrations. Further research required.
- Better understanding of what exactly happens during socializing events would be nice.
- All current observations are subject to wrongness because I occasionally get distracted by unicorns. Should better evidence be found that contradicts these observations, then by all means discuss. I too am curious about the exact mechanics.

edit: things in strikethrough and +
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 01:03:11 am by Liquidpip »
Logged

Urist mcbayblade

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Using the Tavern as a Barracks: A Research Attempt
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2020, 03:10:24 pm »

Would having the barracks overlap with a temple as well fulfill religious needs?
I often find my  military dwarfs get quite stressed from being unable to pray.
Logged

HmH

  • Bay Watcher
  • Cage Trap Personified
    • View Profile
Re: Using the Tavern as a Barracks: A Research Attempt
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2020, 03:36:59 pm »

Observed advantages:
...
- Soldiers have friends. Friendship is magic.
I'm not entirely sure how that's an advantage.
Friendship is magic? Perhaps... but if so, then it's dark magic. The sort that involves lots of blood, insanity, and gibbering horrors.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 03:40:33 pm by HmH »
Logged

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Using the Tavern as a Barracks: A Research Attempt
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2020, 04:49:49 pm »

- The tavern cannot be used to deliberately take advantage of outsiders, because your military should otherwise also be expendable, which I don't think is the point if you go to the extent of taking care of their mental health.
Expendable, perhaps. But as far as the Human (Dwarven) resources department goes, soldiers are an expensive expendable resource, on a par with miners and soap makers

I'm not entirely sure how that's an advantage.
Friendship is magic? Perhaps... but if so, then it's dark magic. The sort that involves lots of blood, insanity, and gibbering horrors.
We are made men by the magic of stress relief. We are undone by the magic of stress bequeathed.

Liquidpip

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Using the Tavern as a Barracks: A Research Attempt
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2020, 01:08:11 am »

Would having the barracks overlap with a temple as well fulfill religious needs?
I often find my  military dwarfs get quite stressed from being unable to pray.

Unfortunately, no. I have my dwarves train for seasons in the temple and their religious needs are not fulfilled.

Observed advantages:
...
- Soldiers have friends. Friendship is magic.
I'm not entirely sure how that's an advantage.
Friendship is magic? Perhaps... but if so, then it's dark magic. The sort that involves lots of blood, insanity, and gibbering horrors.

... Wouldn't you want that? Wouldn't it be cool to have a squad of blood mages that will only become more powerful the more enemies die in screaming agony? Will there ever be "The Secrets of Blood and Gore"? And it's obtained by making enough friends?
Logged

Thisfox

  • Bay Watcher
  • Vixen.
    • View Profile
Re: Using the Tavern as a Barracks: A Research Attempt
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2020, 01:52:50 am »

Fully a third of my fort worship Death. I for one do not need the military training in the middle of the temple. That's how religious accidents happen...
Logged
Mules gotta spleen. Dwarfs gotta eat.
Thisfox likes aquifers, olivine, Forgotten Beasts for their imagination, & dorfs for their stupidity. She prefers to consume gin & tonic. She absolutely detests Facebook.
"Urist McMason died out of pure spite to make you wonder why he was suddenly dead"
Oh god... Plump Helmet Man Mimes!

PatrikLundell

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Using the Tavern as a Barracks: A Research Attempt
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2020, 05:56:51 am »

Fully a third of my fort worship Death. I for one do not need the military training in the middle of the temple. That's how religious accidents happen...
Countered by the OP's setting of disabling vampires and weres. With those enabled, temple training may indeed well be a stress test of the player's nerves.
Logged

Thisfox

  • Bay Watcher
  • Vixen.
    • View Profile
Re: Using the Tavern as a Barracks: A Research Attempt
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2020, 04:15:01 pm »

I more meant that "he went to meet his maker" could mean a few more volunteers to meet theirs, or "Death took him" could lead to volunteers as well, but yes, there won't be the same amount of accursed problems.
Logged
Mules gotta spleen. Dwarfs gotta eat.
Thisfox likes aquifers, olivine, Forgotten Beasts for their imagination, & dorfs for their stupidity. She prefers to consume gin & tonic. She absolutely detests Facebook.
"Urist McMason died out of pure spite to make you wonder why he was suddenly dead"
Oh god... Plump Helmet Man Mimes!

Iä! RIAKTOR!

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Using the Tavern as a Barracks: A Research Attempt
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2020, 04:16:10 pm »

Small dance floor force dwarves to get friends faster, get lovers faster and then marry faster. Also, whats about good old danger rooms?
Logged

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Using the Tavern as a Barracks: A Research Attempt
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2020, 02:57:58 pm »

Small dance floor force dwarves to get friends faster, get lovers faster and then marry faster. Also, whats about good old danger rooms?
Danger rooms are just high risk disco