Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Jumping back into a fortress - tips for the new versions?  (Read 1433 times)

pisskop

  • Bay Watcher
  • Too old and stubborn to get a new avatar
    • View Profile
Jumping back into a fortress - tips for the new versions?
« on: October 13, 2019, 03:57:37 pm »

First, What is a tavern, or a library?  (seriously, what constitutes buildings/structures, and how can i use them?  Dwarves in my day didnt read or write, they smoothed pictographs into a stone wall like men)

Second, what recent version is mostly game-breaking bug free?

Third, do sneak-thieves and kidnappers visit?

fourth, can i just play based on my knowledge of the game from pre-magic update?

Can my starting seven bed the same as before, or is there a new optimal setup?

Are zeds still stronger than husks?  Is an evil biome relatively the same as before?

Is climbing still obnoxious, or can I now pit monsters for future use?

Are military bugs still a thing?  Such as improper layering, hunters/miners not equipping properly, dwarves beserking into combat with no regard for safety, etc.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 04:00:28 pm by pisskop »
Logged
Pisskop's Reblancing Mod - A C:DDA Mod to make life a little (lot) more brutal!
drealmerz7 - pk was supreme pick for traitor too I think, and because of how it all is and pk is he is just feeding into the trollfucking so well.
PKs DF Mod!

PatrikLundell

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Jumping back into a fortress - tips for the new versions?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2019, 05:34:31 pm »

0. Questions about "what's changed since I last played" are a lot easier to answer if you're stating your base version...
(and the general starting point should be to read the release notes since and ask questions about the unclear points).

1. A tavern is where socializing takes place, as well as drinking by barkeeps/performers assigned to the tavern (a.k.a. poisoners) shoving drinks down the throat of patrons. Poisoners can cause death by vomit suffocation and increases the rate of lethal "non lethal" bar brawls, unless you want to have that in your fortress, in which case you probably won't see it. Nobody assigned to the tavern = no drink shoving, so dorfs solely drink by fetching their own drinks (a staffed tavern allows vampires and goblins to drink, though). The tavern is also the main destination for visitors, who are also served by staffed taverns, but those won't fetch their own.

A library is where "books" (several names are used, and two different types internally in DF) are stored and written, both by citizens assigned to the library and by visiting scholars. Books satisfy the "introspection" need, and each book can be read once by each dorf.
Books can also be copied in the library by assigned scribes. Original books are artifacts, while copies are not. Books can change dorf values, and thus be used for propaganda.

Temples is where the prayer needs are fulfilled. Omni temples can be used to pray to all gods, while dedicated ones are dedicated to a single deity. The latter type also draws various types of "useless" (i.e. no fortress function) visitors, as well as slows down visitor turnover by having "ordinary" visitors go on half year long prayer benders before getting to their actual business.

2. Probably 0.40.24. The next major version had the weapon trap breakage crash bug (wear was introduced, and when trap components wore out DF crashed). Could be worked around by using cage traps and menacing spike traps only. The current version suffers from the raid corruption bug that eventually causes the game to crash. The bug is caused by dorfs returning from raids somehow being managed incorrectly so inappropriate things gets added to one or more militia specific item lists (usually books), and when DF evaluates equipment the next time it crashes. Only known workarounds are to never raid, disband all militia and never assign any ever again once the bug is detected (typically because the game crashed), or retire/reclaim the fortress (with the associated mess caused by that, including bugs).

3. Infiltrators visit, i.e. groups of mercs hunting for an artifact, one of them leaves and tries to sneak back in, and when this hostile sneaker is engaged (either by attacking or being attacked after being discovered and fleeing) the rest of the infiltrators become invisibly hostile (not marked as hostile, but panicking, attacking, or just scaring dorfs while pretending to socialize etc). Infiltrators can come in huge hordes (larger than the visitor cap). Goblins can try to sneak in, presumably to snatch babies, and necros can likewise try to sneak in. Kobolds, while rather rare, still behave as they did earlier.

4. The Myth & Magic arc is still a fair while off (current Villains arc, followed by Premium version arc, followed by Big Wait, followed by first M&M release). Needs fulfillment is unbalanced and dorfs are horrible at actually fulfilling their needs. This means more care is needed to keep most dorfs sane (and some will be lost no matter what you do, due to ineptitude and traits).

5. Starting is about the same. Food/drink consumption has been adjusted slightly upwards, so you'd run out around the dwarven caravan unless you produce more (depending on summer migrant wave size). Aquifer penetration was modified in the jobs update (0.40.19? or so), so chicken runs no longer work. The wiki describes how to handle them using the double-slit method, though.

6. Zeds have been nerfed a bit, I believe, and I think husks are stronger than zeds. Evil biomes are about the same. Note that corpse handling has changed so all corpses of sapients go into the "y" corpse stockpile (previously non dorfs went into the refuse one), however, all corpses of reanimated critters go into the refuse one.

7. I don't think climbing has changed. The mass pitting/mass escape issue is still present.

8. Civilian "uniforms" are still incompatible with military ones. I think layering handling has been improved somewhat. Dorfs still can't be managed in any sensible manner in combat: they still charge at the first sight of the enemy, and X-bow dorfs still charge when out of bolts (climbing and dropping to their deaths if that's the way to charge).

Visitors have been introduced. Multi racial fortresses are now a thing due to petitioning visitors. Clothing can be made in different sizes to allow naturalized citizens to be clothed. Needs have been touched upon. Raiding was introduced in the last arc. The forum is full of threads on needs and needs management.
Logged

Fleeting Frames

  • Bay Watcher
  • Spooky cart at distance
    • View Profile
Re: Jumping back into a fortress - tips for the new versions?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2019, 06:45:43 pm »

General: You may find this infographic helpful, though it is not up to current.

Regarding 2 (bugs)

If you want to play without combat wear/force transfer, there's 43.03 (which I'm currently on due still not having done everything I want with hitting dwarves/enemies with small stuff) - however, latest version has better FPS among other things, and you can choose to not raid to avoid corruption from that - sieges are still better at recruiting now than in that version iirc.

However, many people feel the emotions update in 44.10-44.12 is too harsh and Toady One acknowledges the current behaviour as unintended, so you might want to use either 44.09 or dial down stress vulnerability/bravery/anxiety propensity/depression propensity/anger propensity trait(s) in dwarves' raws.

Regarding 5 (starting):

Because of emotion changes, you need to pay attention to the above listed traits, primarily the stress vulnerability. Military/corpse hauler needs to have bonuses to withstand sun, rain and death.

You might want to place quick temporary temple zone or tavern at start so that everyone starts off more focused (a single completed activity maxes out the relevant needs' focus for a time), thus working faster/better. Beware that all locations start off with allowing all visitors and default visitor cap is 100 in init files, which is a substantial fps drain when reached.

There's been couple of new skill options available on embark: Tavern activities skills, scholarly skills, and Raiding ones.

Tavern skills are somewhat useless, as you have no indications whether any given skill will be used before embark, and even when used the effect comes to minor happiness boost when they're leading something while idling in a tavern. What's more, any Poet or Dancer joining your fort may have far greater skill than what you can grant - up to great in several related skills is pretty common in troupes in my experience, while you have little chance of reaching that in fortress play before they come. Furthermore, dwarves naturally tend to start with minor level of skills in this category.

Now, value-changing books written by philosophers are fairly rare (even any topic book can take half a decade of pondering), and you can't exactly force a philosopher either, which means that majority of scholarly skills add only flavour - if you want a particular non-trainable one, it's better to get it at embark because Observer, which will easily come from being near your squads, counts as scholarly skill for Naturalists.
(Wiki has longer article on this.)

Raiding ones being ones that contribute bonuses on raid missions - Military Tactics, as well as Ambusher, Leader (and some also suspect Organizer).

On aquifer.

As the wiki mentions on chicken run technique, you can still penetrate with just a pick by channeling diagonally, just not with direct staircase, so still don't need to double-slit on soil only aquifer. That one works with even dabbling miner, btw.

Regarding zombies

They've been changed several times. In 42-43, they were killable with pulping and mangling of corpses preventing reanimation; however, very small pieces became unhittable, becoming capable of ending fortresses through dehydration when everyone attacked them (loss was still preventable with proper handling and fortress design in many cases however). In 44.01, that invulnerability was reduced.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 06:54:37 pm by Fleeting Frames »
Logged

anewaname

  • Bay Watcher
  • The mattock... My choice for problem solving.
    • View Profile
Re: Jumping back into a fortress - tips for the new versions?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2019, 08:46:25 am »

You can now expel dwarfs from your fort (through the 'v'iew screen). Tantrumming dwarfs, were-infected dwarfs, etc... this can save your fort, by avoiding tantrum spirals.

The layering issues with uniforms, where military dwarfs would only put on one high boot or gauntlet... those still exist but can be removed by a modding the raws for High Boot and Gauntlet, just add the [SHAPED] tag and dwarfs will always equip boots properly.

For the temple, tavern and library, you can set them up using zones or using furniture, the wiki has details. Simple works well. You should buy at least one book as soon as possible.
Logged
Quote from: dragdeler
There is something to be said about, if the stakes are as high, maybe reconsider your certitudes. One has to be aggressively allistic to feel entitled to be able to trust. But it won't happen to me, my bit doesn't count etc etc... Just saying, after my recent experiences I couldn't trust the public if I wanted to. People got their risk assessment neurons rotten and replaced with game theory. Folks walk around like fat turkeys taunting the world to slaughter them.

pisskop

  • Bay Watcher
  • Too old and stubborn to get a new avatar
    • View Profile
Re: Jumping back into a fortress - tips for the new versions?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2019, 04:37:48 pm »

Hey guys thanks!  I think I'll need some time to adjust, but I should be able to have a world genned tonight!


Now if only my old modded files were still around . . . I gave elves magic spells and added in a new civ and added several semi and megabeasts.
Logged
Pisskop's Reblancing Mod - A C:DDA Mod to make life a little (lot) more brutal!
drealmerz7 - pk was supreme pick for traitor too I think, and because of how it all is and pk is he is just feeding into the trollfucking so well.
PKs DF Mod!