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Author Topic: Extremely hostile worldgens?  (Read 1908 times)

comicraider

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Extremely hostile worldgens?
« on: June 26, 2019, 07:03:43 pm »

 I've been playing in a lot of worlds that have seen mass extinction lately, but it's always been megabeasts and warring that make things !!FUN!!.

Anyone have any worldgen parameters for making worlds that are borderline uninhabitable? Evil biomes everywhere, extremely hot or cold etc.?

I'm after a challenge, go ahead and fun me up.
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wierd

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Re: Extremely hostile worldgens?
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2019, 02:33:58 am »

oh really?

I spun up something special for a succession game that seems to have stagnated.  Hop on over to community games, and grab the save for Dawnthunder.

That world is extra special fun sauce. Has purposefully duplicated material raws, but holy jeeze, is it full of evil and monsters.  My last turn, I exterminated over 1000 undeads in the caverns with a special contraption.  Overland travel is nearly impossible in adventure mode.  Elves and human are extinct.

It's the closest to maximum grimdark I could spin without having a fully dead world.
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vjek

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Re: Extremely hostile worldgens?
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2019, 06:16:35 pm »

Here's a challenge for you, comicraider.
Spoiler: comicraider3 (click to show/hide)
Features:
Iron
Flux
Trees (and as a result, technically steel friendly)
A small 2Z aquifer (EDIT: small as in, less than 10% of the embark surface, and only 2 Z levels thick)
A thin embark (23Z total)
and more surprise challenges; If you don't want to know, don't click below.
Spoiler: also features.. (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 10:15:30 am by vjek »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Extremely hostile worldgens?
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2019, 10:06:24 am »

comicraider3 is fairly interesting.

Some notes:
- I read the aquifer note sloppily, and so expected the aquifer to cover the whole embark, and so thought I'd have to pierce it using the freezing method (which should work).

(of which some relates to the spoiler section):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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vjek

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Re: Extremely hostile worldgens?
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2019, 10:44:18 am »

I updated the aquifer description.  I wasn't sure it would be clear enough, and my first instinct was correct.  :P

Regarding silk.. it will appear at the same Z-Level as the caverns in any excavated tile, so really, you just need to make large enough open areas that it produces constantly, which it will.  At least, It has for me. 
Once you have blocked access to the cavern, you can then auto-collect webs from your safe areas with a single loom, and you'll be swimming in cloth in no-time.  Certainly enough to make replacement clothing, in my experience.  But it will require some reasonably large (20x20 or larger) mined out areas on those Z-Levels to spontaneously generate enough webs.

I was working on this type of embark anyway, for my dead civ testing.  This combination of features withOUT caravans is pretty challenging.  I also found glacier bees, recently, which.. shouldn't be possible based on previous single-biome embarks, but apparently is in multi-biome embarks.  ???

PatrikLundell

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Re: Extremely hostile worldgens?
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2019, 11:17:40 am »

I've just blocked access OF the cavern, i.e. plugged all external entrances, so I now have full access to it, so we'll see how much my loom manages to produce (once the dorfs stop trampling it to collect the logs).
Given that the caravans haven't really provided anything of use, I've essentially played without so far. Moods and booze are the big issues, and my Elk Bird testing seems to indicate that once Animal Care is enabled, the birds get fed, so it ought to work to bring sheep on embark for wool. Given all the stuff you can't bring, you've got a lot of embark point...

Dead civ's are bugged even worse than normal with the current DF version. A normal civ will eventually crash due to raid equipment corruption, while a dead one can't raid at all, because the raid party is never moved to the target (it' presumably done by the civ, and since it's dead all its actions are probably bypassed). Thus parties leave the fortress, but never get anywhere or return.

I haven't paid attentions to non aquatic vermin distribution, but I wouldn't be surprised if they'd roam throughout the embark, including with their nests.

Edit:
It seems this embark doesn't work well with invaders. My first goblin invader group had most of them arrive dead, with two alive. Those left immediately. The second wave was considerably larger, but all trolls and beak dogs, as well as most gobbos were dead on arrival. About 3 gobbos survived, but retreated almost immediately (but they did at least move a bit, unlike the first group that made a hello/goodbye visit).

Edit2: It seems even Titans die from exposure in the outdoor temperatures, at least organic ones. I caught one in one of my entrance tunnels a year or two ago (their attack trigger was set to a pop of 14), and let it out as summer turned to autumn. A third gobbo siege appeared, and the Titan fought the 3 or so invaders that didn't die immediately. One gobbo invader was thrown down on a ramp and that corpse did not decay beyond XX, and was, oddly enough, hauled to the refuse stockpile rather than the corpse one, as if it was undead, even though I didn't see anything indicating any unit being reanimated despite watching the whole conflict.
As the caravans have been AWOL for the last two years it's getting boring (and I did save scum to get the invasion: the attempt before that had the entire month go without any caravan arriving, and in that run I didn't let the Titan out until I was sure no caravan would arrive).
Stress is somewhat of an issue, although nobody has gone beyond a yellow arrow. I've save scummed past moods that call for unavailable items.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 09:58:44 am by PatrikLundell »
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Extremely hostile worldgens?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2019, 12:27:06 pm »

Spoiler: Note on spoiler (click to show/hide)

Perhaps there'd be less goblin exposure deaths on arrival if the biome to the NW of embark isn't deadly cold? I'm recalling the husked-outside-embark kobolds of Roomcarnage, here.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 12:32:11 pm by Fleeting Frames »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Extremely hostile worldgens?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2019, 04:46:04 pm »

Caravans can arrive: I had one trade session where wagons were blocked (those are the ones that die of exposure). Unfortunately no further caravans arrived after that, so I couldn't test if a protected underground approach would have saved wagons as well.

I've never seen creatures from neighboring biomes enter an embark unless there's at least a tiny incursion of that biome onto the embark, and unless I missed something, there are no desert tiles on the embark. The sort of exception to the previous statement is fliers belonging to the air biome, but there's a whole lot of air biome there...
On the other hand, I never saw any surface critters (flying or otherwise) apart from caravans and migrants on the embark, although they may have all died before I've had a chance to seem them, but they should then appear in the dead list for a while before DFHack culls them, and I didn't see that either.
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Extremely hostile worldgens?
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2019, 05:03:39 pm »

I've mentioned it before, but building floors to the map edge in air biome works. (Or at least used to in previous versions.)

Ex, Stoat Jill entering on cherry tree branches:


If meeting area stays Cold even with magma heating, though, I doubt it'd work for entering embark.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Extremely hostile worldgens?
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2019, 04:02:01 am »

Well, yes, allowing land critters to enter through the air biome through building an access is possible and is an extension of the exception case. Would be tricky to accomplish in an extremely cold biome, though, as the builders risk getting killed while building.

Edit: Looking at the embark with the Biome Manipulator indicates that the embark's cloud causes temporary syndromes, and that the tundra incursion actually is reanimating (and reanimation has been verified to happen in the incursion).

Edit 2: Experimenting with getting caravans in safely has shown some weird behaviors:
- IF you manage/are lucky enough to get wagons underground immediately, it still doesn't help: they'll deconstruct while traveling in above freezing temperatures.
- If you block wagons and manage to get draft animals underground immediately, you STILL can't get any organic materials, because after traveling in above freezing temperatures for 10 or so tiles all organic material (according to DF's definitions) is still destroyed, leaving puddles of frozen(!) liquids and piles of sand etc. on the ground. The non organic stuff is hauled to the trade depot and is available for trade, though.
- Oddly, while all the organic material a wagon carried is destroyed, the wagon itself leaves behind a wagon wood log that survives (when the wagon deconstructed while inside).

- Sheep can be kept alive if caged (and, I presume, chained, though I didn't try that) and fed (meat) by animal caretaking dorfs.
- It should be possible to pierce an aquifer using the double slit method (not needed on this embark) even though you can't bring a pipe on embark, because charcoal, coke, and bitumous coal all survive, so you should be able to make a forge and forge a metal pipe (the screw can be brought, as can stone for blocks, or ready made stone blocks, plus some metal bars). You can also use the freeze method, of course, but that means exposure to the elements while making and using that passage.
- I've found no normal way to move frozen liquids apart from dumping, as stockpile links don't work, regardless of stockpile type (including refuse) and whether they use barrels or not. It's quite possible DF requires liquids to be in containers to consider them for movement. It is possible to DFHack kitchens to use the appropriate kind of booze for cooking. That results in a cancellation of the order, but the frozen booze has been hauled to the kitchen and thawed at that point, and a new order will cause the liquid booze to be scraped up from the floor and used (if frozen booze is dumped it evaporates very quickly). Note that even in normal cases, dorfs will carry booze in their hands when booze cooking.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 05:11:09 am by PatrikLundell »
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