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[Lozzymandias]

So I had the most odd fun at the start of this fortress. The big hardcodes Spring migrant wave came with an extra surprise, a werewarthog. 6 Migrants got bit. I dutifully walled them in while I prepared a long term sealef leper colony for them (something I always wanted to try). First transformation revealed who was and was not a hog (sorry Urist Mc-eaten-by-hogs). Then the four remaining fought among themselves, 2 of them aimed for everyone else but the other two fought side by side, and won. Odd.

These two went in the leper colony once it was prepared. And for 3 transformation cycles they were the perfect housemates, peaceful friends while dwarf and hog. On the 4th they tore at each other mercilessly, one slew the other and then he bled out on his cellmates corpse.

Can anyone explain this bizarre faction anarchy?

[PatrikLundell]

I believe it's a matter of transformation timing. Weres of the same source (I'm not sure about the same type but different original cursing events) are not supposed to be hostile towards each other. However, once a were has transformed, it is immediately hostile to all non weres (of the same source), but other weres may not have transformed yet, which makes them legitimate targets, and attacks are not broken off when the target transforms (and the transforming were retaliates when being attacked, of course). Even weres have a small shred of loyalty, which is why two of them fought together (or, rather, fought the same targets and not each other).
Without having tried, I would expect weres of the same source that you can somehow separate during the transformation to/from were form to be non hostile towards each other when allowed to mingle between the transformations. Now, separating them during the vulnerable periods isn't exactly easy of you want them to mix when transformed...

I believe this issue is essentially the same as when killing a where as it transforms back can lead to a loyalty cascade if the were was a fortress member.

[Lozzymandias]

I believe it's a matter of transformation timing. Weres of the same source (I'm not sure about the same type but different original cursing events) are not supposed to be hostile towards each other. However, once a were has transformed, it is immediately hostile to all non weres (of the same source), but other weres may not have transformed yet, which makes them legitimate targets, and attacks are not broken off when the target transforms (and the transforming were retaliates when being attacked, of course). Even weres have a small shred of loyalty, which is why two of them fought together (or, rather, fought the same targets and not each other).
Without having tried, I would expect weres of the same source that you can somehow separate during the transformation to/from were form to be non hostile towards each other when allowed to mingle between the transformations. Now, separating them during the vulnerable periods isn't exactly easy of you want them to mix when transformed...

I believe this issue is essentially the same as when killing a where as it transforms back can lead to a loyalty cascade if the were was a fortress member.

I was under the impression that weres all transform at the tick of midnight on the start of the full moon, so there's no opportunity for factional staggering. Do dwarves only do actions (in this case transform) in discrete chunks of ticks? In which case there will be some ticks between each of them performing their transformation. Certainly there's plenty of evidence for that explanation, I think by the 4th cycle there was nothing left to topple and the first one to transform might have prioritised that over violence...

I have some caged trolls, and with the right god a curse factory would be trivial to establish, I'll do some science

[Saiko Kila]

I've made some experiments on werecreratures, including with saves-scumming, and the transformations were always on the same tick. It isn't on midnight, it's on the same moment the moon changes to full moon. There are 13 transformations every year, more or less evenly spaced, with the actual calculated tick rounded up to the nearest tens - so different lunar months have different length, thought each specific one is always the same length, and begins in the same instant as in other years.

The transformed creatures have their target selected instantly, on the same tick as the transformation, be it another creature or a building, but the target can change on the next tick (for example from a building to higher priority live target, or from another werebeast to the baby carried by weremother). The initial target depends on the positioning, and it can be selected only in a time window. The target can also change during subsequent ticks, but after some time window they won't attack the same were-species.

If there are three werebeasts and a non-werebeast, and by chance the werebeast A and B attack and switch targets only between werebeast C and the non-werebeast in the beginning, then after dispatching of them, the werebeast A and B don't attack each other. If the switches are between them all in the beginning, then only one will remain (which can die of blood loss, eventually). If you teleport werebeasts from different cells to one, after this time window, they won't attack each other.

During tests I never had a situation that they won't attack someone, even if all were werebeasts. I've tested only werebeasts of the same curse. However, I use only relatively small cells (like 5x5), so everyone always sees everyone else in such cell, also for tests I was choosing the same transformation date (which may something to do with the length of this vulnerability time window).

Now if you have them in a small cell, and they won't attack each other months after months, but only start later, than would be interesting.

[PatrikLundell]

Thanks for that insight, Saiko Kila.

[Lozzymandias]

I've made some experiments on werecreratures, including with saves-scumming, and the transformations were always on the same tick. It isn't on midnight, it's on the same moment the moon changes to full moon. There are 13 transformations every year, more or less evenly spaced, with the actual calculated tick rounded up to the nearest tens - so different lunar months have different length, thought each specific one is always the same length, and begins in the same instant as in other years.

The transformed creatures have their target selected instantly, on the same tick as the transformation, be it another creature or a building, but the target can change on the next tick (for example from a building to higher priority live target, or from another werebeast to the baby carried by weremother). The initial target depends on the positioning, and it can be selected only in a time window. The target can also change during subsequent ticks, but after some time window they won't attack the same were-species.

If there are three werebeasts and a non-werebeast, and by chance the werebeast A and B attack and switch targets only between werebeast C and the non-werebeast in the beginning, then after dispatching of them, the werebeast A and B don't attack each other. If the switches are between them all in the beginning, then only one will remain (which can die of blood loss, eventually). If you teleport werebeasts from different cells to one, after this time window, they won't attack each other.

During tests I never had a situation that they won't attack someone, even if all were werebeasts. I've tested only werebeasts of the same curse. However, I use only relatively small cells (like 5x5), so everyone always sees everyone else in such cell, also for tests I was choosing the same transformation date (which may something to do with the length of this vulnerability time window).

Now if you have them in a small cell, and they won't attack each other months after months, but only start later, than would be interesting.

May i commend you on the thoroughness of your science! it ought to go in the wiki for to aid were-management. In truth i wouldn't say the cellmates had constant line of sight, there were two bedrooms, with doors and a farm plot and a few workshops. So when transformation came there was always something to do instead of mauling the shit out of one another. I suppose eventually the timing was wrong, they transformed in the same room with nothing to destroy and instead of filling the critical window with bed breaking they went for each other.

I'm certain squads of werefolk (not to mention were-ass lashers) were possible in previous iterations without breaking line of sight...

[Saiko Kila]

May i commend you on the thoroughness of your science! it ought to go in the wiki for to aid were-management. In truth i wouldn't say the cellmates had constant line of sight, there were two bedrooms, with doors and a farm plot and a few workshops. So when transformation came there was always something to do instead of mauling the shit out of one another. I suppose eventually the timing was wrong, they transformed in the same room with nothing to destroy and instead of filling the critical window with bed breaking they went for each other.

I'm certain squads of werefolk (not to mention were-ass lashers) were possible in previous iterations without breaking line of sight...

I'm not sure what I observed would be always true, because it would need more tests, especially to find out how long it takes to "cool down". It may be only a few ticks... But the line of sight of werebeasts isn't that long. I have some sacrificial animals in the woods, or sometimes a visitor, and city walls with multiple gates (over a dozen), and werebeast usually kills an animal or a visitor and stands outside the gates until it transforms.

When an enemy appears, it will have always one of its destructive action on: goblin will have attack on someone (if there's a path), troll can have attack or building destruction, and dragon can have many things, including stealing items. The first target is "seen" even through walls, but the path is calculated in normal way, so usually leads past many other potential targets, including higher priority, and the first target may be never actually approached. The same with werebeast. I suppose the first target choice uses different rules than the subsequent ones, and when it results in an attack on an "ally", then loyalty cascade of sorts messes it up.