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[Dorfson]

Hi all.

In my forts I usually kill all the Goblins visitors on sight, but this time my outpost liaison is a Goblin... Can I kill him? Any ideas for a trap?

Dwarfs are more tolerant towards Goblins than Elfs? How is this relationship working?

[Xyon]

I personally wouldn't worry about it, but you could always set up a drawbridge pitfall trapped meeting room where the liason meets with your leader to discuss matters.

[PatrikLundell]

Dwarves don't care about race: it's a number of overseers that are racists...

Dorfs have issues with the ethics of other civs (currently only ones founded by members of other races), but that's ethnics, not race, as dorfs of goblin civs adhere to "goblin" ethics and goblins of dwarven civs adhere to "dwarven" ethics. There is a difference on the individual level, where life goals, and possibly ethic leanings, have a different distribution among citizens of different racial origin, but there are also "pure" dwarves that have rather goblin like traits, and vice versa.

(Almost) all the goblin visitors you murder on sight are members of civs that weren't founded by goblins (or, rather a demon overlord), such as your own, eleven, human, or other dwarven civs. The exception are the spies, and the spies of goblin civs do not have to be goblins racially (but their hidden identity is raised and based on a goblin ethnicity, with the associated ethics). So far I haven't been able to identify any spies to allow me to examine what they look like (with DFHack), but I know I've had ones, as gobbo invaders have bypassed some of my traps.

[Urist9876]

I made a fort for an adventurer. Captured a hydra and trained it. After I got enough scrolls prepared to start the adventures of a depressed poet I retired the fort.

Then I revisited the place with my adventurer. The hydra became tame - sort of - because he went on murdering resident goblins and one dwarf that came from another civilization. I would almost guess he murdered spies.

[Shonai_Dweller]

as gobbo invaders have bypassed some of my traps.

When did locating and bypassing traps become a spy mechanic?

[PatrikLundell]

as gobbo invaders have bypassed some of my traps.

When did locating and bypassing traps become a spy mechanic?

Before my time... Until 0.44.01 the only spies where called "diplomats" and "merchants", though (which I've never actually experienced myself, as I haven't provoked wars). Thus, my guess is that the pre-existing mechanic "simply" has been extended to actual spies, which is rather cool.

When it comes to my gobbo invaders, you can actually see the path the spies took through the different entrances, as you can follow a line of untriggered cage traps among the triggered ones (my entrances are two tiles wide, except for the trade one).

[Shonai_Dweller]

as gobbo invaders have bypassed some of my traps.

When did locating and bypassing traps become a spy mechanic?

Before my time... Until 0.44.01 the only spies where called "diplomats" and "merchants", though (which I've never actually experienced myself, as I haven't provoked wars). Thus, my guess is that the pre-existing mechanic "simply" has been extended to actual spies, which is rather cool.

When it comes to my gobbo invaders, you can actually see the path the spies took through the different entrances, as you can follow a line of untriggered cage traps among the triggered ones (my entrances are two tiles wide, except for the trade one).

How do you know they're not just looking at your two possible entrances and selecting the one without the traps?

Well, it makes the 'learn from mistakes where the traps are' part of Improved Sieges nice and easy to implement anyway, since its basically happening already.

[h27kim]

Goblin (or elven) dwarven nobles are disturbingly common (they also seem to lead human civ often).  Might have something to do with their being functional immortals.

[PatrikLundell]

as gobbo invaders have bypassed some of my traps.

When did locating and bypassing traps become a spy mechanic?

Before my time... Until 0.44.01 the only spies where called "diplomats" and "merchants", though (which I've never actually experienced myself, as I haven't provoked wars). Thus, my guess is that the pre-existing mechanic "simply" has been extended to actual spies, which is rather cool.

When it comes to my gobbo invaders, you can actually see the path the spies took through the different entrances, as you can follow a line of untriggered cage traps among the triggered ones (my entrances are two tiles wide, except for the trade one).

How do you know they're not just looking at your two possible entrances and selecting the one without the traps?

Well, it makes the 'learn from mistakes where the traps are' part of Improved Sieges nice and easy to implement anyway, since its basically happening already.

I don't have any untrapped entrances: both tiles of my two tile entrances have traps in both tiles for a long stretch (and I think it's now along the full length for 2 of the 3 two tile entrances). The trade entrance has a zig/zag untrapped path with traps enforcing the zig/zagging for the wagons.

It can also be noted that they're not really using the trap knowledge as they'll path independently of it: the only effect the knowledge has is that they don't get caught in the traps the "know" about (as if a previous invader had already triggered it). They typically rush down both tiles of the corridor unless they arrive from one side, in which case they mostly follow that side (which also happened to be the path taken by a spy, in one case).

I haven't established whether reloading cage traps cause them to be "new", but think that's the case. Similarly, I've tried to rip up traps and rebuild them, and it seems that works.

Edit: I think the spy trap discovery mechanics theory needs to be revised. I made a script to check my traps, and one of them has a list of 45 civs that know of it (and it might not be the winner either...). I doubt I've had actual undercover spies from that many civs, as it looks more like I've had visitors from that many civs (at least one of which was an undercover spy). Thus, my current guess is that every civ government interrogates all its citizens about traps (and artifacts? [it doesn't stop the same individuals from returning again and again looking for the same artifact they previously knew was there, as they tried to steal it]) when they return from visits abroad.

And sorry to the OP for derailing the thread. I think it has served its purpose, though.