Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Storybook based on Dwarf Fortress  (Read 1483 times)

Denolven

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Storybook based on Dwarf Fortress
« on: May 21, 2018, 01:56:49 am »

(This posting has been reworked to correct mistakes. If you are wondering why people below reacted the way they did, you can check out the archived version of this in the second posting)

Hello fellow Dwarves o/

I'm a long time DF fan and spontaneously decided to write a book, inspired by the strange and fascinating things that came up when starting a new settlement in Fortress Mode. I've never published a novel so far, so this is like a test run for me, a self-imposed challenge. The goal is to have something presentable in the end. I want to see if I'm capable of actually producing something that people can consume and have good thoughts about.

My only work as an author that ever saw the public is a free book for teaching purposes that I wrote years ago, published by a community academy.("Tanker's Handbook", half about tanks and half about teamwork and human quirks) Disclaimer: I made 0 $ with that book and I intend to keep it that way. If you find that donation button to be functioning, please report to me so I know I need to break it more. The academy closed its doors in 2017.

I will keep this updated as I go, linking the raw text below whenever a chapter reaches a state that I'm satisfied with. Do with it whatever you want, it's a present to the world. If you feel the need to get filthy rich by publishing it under your own name, have fun.
Additionally, I will link some of the material that I use as a source for this project (detailed character info for example). You can use that to make your own art if you want, or just browse it out of curiosity.

In the long run I'm interested in experimenting with combining the written word with other media, such as image or sound. Preferably by working together with other people, because I can't do everything on my own. I believe that combining mediums creates something that is more than just the sum of its parts, an own unique medium.

Enjoy the work in progress below. :)
(English is a foreign language for me, so please report wrong usage of words if you see it.)

Denolven



Source material:
Story of the Blueboats, Chapter 1: By the Fire
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Story of the Blueboats, Chapter 2: Quarrel
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Story of the Blueboats, Chapter 3: Change of Plans
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 11:17:23 am by Denolven »
Logged

Denolven

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Storybook writer looking for painter
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2018, 01:57:20 am »

Archived obsolete version of the opening posting. Ignore this unless you absolutely need to know what mess I created before.
Or unless you are bored, I guess ^_^
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 07:18:43 am by Denolven »
Logged

Parsely

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • My games!
Re: Storybook writer looking for painter
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2018, 01:12:14 pm »

If you were paying, I know some people who I would recommend, but I think it's fairly clear that's not what you're after here. All I have to say is please don't PM and solicit artists who take commissions for free art, they will (should) say no, because they could be spending their time working on pieces they will get paid for, which is good because they get will definitely something in return for what they're making.

If you're serious about this then I recommend making a complete rough script, storyboarding it, then trying to paint it yourself so you can see just how much work you're expecting someone (a stranger!) to do. No, seriously, try it! Even if it doesn't turn out perfectly your book would be finished, it would show people you're serious about what you're making because you put hard work in, and if you want to then improve it you can treat it as a rough draft for a paid artist to work on.

You don't ask people you don't know to work for free, you inspire them with what you do and then they volunteer because they want to, kind of like your fan work on World of Tanks.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 01:25:26 pm by Parsely »
Logged

Denolven

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Storybook writer looking for painter
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2018, 08:02:00 pm »

Ah, maybe I should clarify a bit.
1. You are right, and I'm aware. This project is not primarily aimed at people who are in a position to make money with their art. It's primarily for those 95% who don't (yet). People who are not sure where to go with that urge to create, and haven't had the opportunity (or courage) to actually go for it all the way. That's the situation I'm in as well. I'm aware that this project is uninteresting for people who are beyond that point.

2. I'm not a recruiter, I'm a nobody artist who sets the bar higher than he can currently jump, as a training method to improve. Should the result of this project make much higher waves than expected, we'll figure something out. Something along the lines of 50/50, supported by a formal contract if wished.

3. I get how you might think I'm not aware how much work this is. But don't forget, I'm a creator myself. This project will "cost" me hundreds of hours easily, possibly reaching into the 4 digit space, depending on how well I manage the parts that I've never done before. I spent 3 days on the first three chapters (pure writing, not counting preparation/research), doing literally nothing else except rest and eat, and I'm still not satisfied with two of them. I'm pretty sure I have a realistic feel for how much work lies behind. If you still think that I don't, feel free to throw some numbers at me (I'm coming from a Math/IT background, numbers work well to explain things to me).

4. It's a testing grounds project, no more, and no less. Trying new ideas is not only allowed, but encouraged. The project serves as an opportunity for improvement. A training session in semi-realistic project form, if you will. That's how I'll handle it, anyway.

5. This book will be published with or without images. I'd prefer the former one, but it will happen either way. Things will be shifted around until they work out. Same goes for the images, including workload. If that means 1-hour speed paintings, so be it. We will make it work. That's the whole point of the project. Both trainees set the bar themselves.

No hard feelings if nobody is interested in joining. It's an offer. That means I can handle the possibility that nobody takes it ;)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 11:41:31 pm by Denolven »
Logged

Denolven

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Storybook writer looking for painter (training partner)
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2018, 04:36:56 am »

Nevermind, updated the opening entry instead. Will add chapter 3 as well, when it's in a state I'm satisfied with.
Feel free to report words that are being used in a wrong way. English is a foreign language to me, so there might be a sneaky mistake here or there.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 05:59:28 am by Denolven »
Logged

Cathar

  • Bay Watcher
  • Competent Engraver
    • View Profile
    • My shit
Re: Storybook writer looking for painter (training partner)
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2018, 06:49:13 am »

I fear Parsely is correct. Everyone can write, not everyone can draw, so the deal you're proposing is unfair on its face. I assume you don't know that already, but proposing this kind of deal will tarnish your reputation and for good reasons. Targetting new artists who don't know any better is not something you should do either.

If you want art for your written works, you either have to pay or go through the long and hard process of learning how to draw. There are people who can help everywhere including in this forum if you were to chose the second option.

Regardless I wish you good luck in your endeavors
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 06:54:04 am by Cathar »
Logged

Denolven

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Storybook writer looking for painter (training partner)
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2018, 06:14:47 am »

Wow, I did a piss poor job of setting this up. Note to self: don't post in forums when in a manic phase.
Thanks for your comments though, especially the mature tone.

Everyone can write
Just like everyone can sing and everyone can dance. And I dare to claim that everyone can draw as well.
Not sure what you are trying to say here.
I assume you meant that there are more self-proclaimed writers than there are self-proclaimed painters, which in return makes painters "more valuable" in market terms.
But I don't see the relevance. Testing myself with a challenge has nothing to do with others or with markets.
I agree that I got way ahead of myself with the whole cooperation thing, though. Thank you for reminding me.

If you want art for your written works, you either have to pay or [do it yourself]
Or I give what I have, whithout demanding anything in return, and see if there others doing the same.
Call me naive if you want, but I decided to live the world I'd like to live in.
Treated myself (and others) like an object long enough. I'm tired of this silly game.

Have a nice week everyone  :)
Logged

Cathar

  • Bay Watcher
  • Competent Engraver
    • View Profile
    • My shit
Re: Storybook writer looking for painter (training partner)
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2018, 07:07:59 am »

Wow, I did a piss poor job of setting this up. Note to self: don't post in forums when in a manic phase.
Thanks for your comments though, especially the mature tone.

Don't worry about that, that's something I saw dozen and dozen of times, I'm just giving you heads up, the deal you're proposing will not attract anyone. On principle I cannot join a project with those terms (work on my ideas, and in exchange you get to...work on my ideas, again it's unfair on its face), but I can help you improve your art shall you decide to learn how to illustrate your work.

Paying an artist coffee money is not something you should rule off if your project is important, and you think the art you're asking for has value.

That said, I will review your work when I have a bit more time. Not promising anything but I might have a need for a writer for my own projects, so maybe we can work out something.

Quote
Treated myself (and others) like an object long enough. I'm tired of this silly game.
....excuse me what? You're asking for something that has value. Expecting you to provide fitting compensation for the time spent on your project is normal. Net fishing for free art is way, way worse than "treating people like object" by compensating them rightly for their work.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 07:59:01 am by Cathar »
Logged

Denolven

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Storybook writer looking for painter (training partner)
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2018, 09:05:02 am »

You're asking for something that has value.

Yeah I did, I fixed that. I've reworked the whole opening posting and changed the topic title. The original one was a mess, on more than one level.
Let me know if it's still asking for anything that shouldn't be asked for.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 09:15:16 am by Denolven »
Logged

Cathar

  • Bay Watcher
  • Competent Engraver
    • View Profile
    • My shit
Re: Storybook based on Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2018, 09:31:33 am »

I mean it's common sense really. I followed your link to your previous work ; you're giving the pdf for free, but you're also accepting donations and selling paperbacks. You understand it's a business, and a business you already have a foot in, so if you want partners, pay them, and don't ask people to work for free while you cash in.

Denolven

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Storybook based on Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2018, 10:35:07 am »

Yes, I do understand that it CAN be a business. I just don't want to make it one.

As for the monetization of the Tanker's Handbook: Others discussed the option of making it a business. I refused.
Both the printing and donation options were added by the academy leadership because of the amount of requests to do so from the community.
We discussed it for weeks. It took them even longer to persuade me to allow them to add a donation option for me as the author.
My donation button was never used by anyone, which I feel quite comfortable with. And as far as I'm aware, the button doesn't even work anymore.

The crowdfunding-like monetization option was something that was explored by the academy at that time. I just happened to be around and wasn't hardliner enough to shake off all the "you deserve it" voices.
I should check if anything there still works and disclose it properly here.
Logged

Cathar

  • Bay Watcher
  • Competent Engraver
    • View Profile
    • My shit
Re: Storybook based on Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2018, 01:53:41 pm »

I really appreciate it, thanks. There's nothing wrong with making money with your own work, but theres plenty of wrong making money with the free work of others, so when publishing author ask for free work it raises an enormous red flag. I'm glad I've been wrong and it's just a misunderstanding. Also if your work is a romantization of your fortress, you'd probably have a wider public on the Community Games & Stories forum, since it's a dedicated place for this kind of thing. I'll read your work this evening o/