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Author Topic: Questions regarding Scholars  (Read 1028 times)

TheDorf

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Questions regarding Scholars
« on: March 16, 2018, 03:38:12 pm »

So, I've got a pretty nice library set up. Tons of mastercrafted bookshelves, fancy tables with chairs, coffers and all that jazz. I've made a bunch of quires, and some of them are marked with [TSK], but they don't seem to be moved to the library. My scholars and scribes also don't seem to be writing anything, and I've been waiting for years. How can I get the quires moved, and how do I get my scholars to write? The quires are in the craftsdwarf's workshop if that matters.

Also, I haven't gotten any petitions for long-term residence from visiting scholars, whereas soldiers, monster slayers and entertainers all seem to love my fortress. What's up with this?
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Khthon

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Re: Questions regarding Scholars
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2018, 04:50:58 pm »

Have you tried making a different library meeting zone to see if it's an issue tied to the original? It might help drill down if it's a setup issue, otherwise the only thing I can think of is forbid/unforbid your tasked item to see who it is that's trying to haul your items.

Also, will idlers go into the library? Even if there aren't books in there you should have a few dawdlers, especially if you turn off other meeting areas.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Questions regarding Scholars
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2018, 05:10:00 pm »

Are you playing the latest version? This bug was only just fixed (in 44.06). If it's still happening it needs to be reported.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Questions regarding Scholars
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2018, 05:13:12 pm »

There's a bug that's fixed in 0.44.06 that causes interrupted writing to never resume and that to block further writing. I think forbidding and unforbidding that particular quire would unblock things, but you may want to look it up on the bug tracker.

There's also something odd happening when/if you hook up a museum to a library: when I did, quires weren't hauled to the coffers and visitors took books, went to the museum, and dropped them there after reading, and none of them were brought back to the bookcases.

Scholar petitions are somewhat rarer than performance ones, in my experience, but there's probably a fair bit of variation among the worlds. I don't get many/any fighter visitors any more (I've never accepted any), and like to think they've adapted/learned that my fortress isn't interested. On the other hand, the hordes of artifact hunters have ceased as well. I may have killed them all (trying to sneak in carries a death penalty, and when I kill the sneakers their infiltrator buddies pretend to be innocent while some of them just scare citizens and run around scared themselves, while some offhandedly fire bolts while still pretending to socialize. The infiltrators have to be killed off as well. None of the infiltrators are displayed as hostile).
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TheDorf

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Re: Questions regarding Scholars
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2018, 05:24:10 pm »

Have you tried making a different library meeting zone to see if it's an issue tied to the original? It might help drill down if it's a setup issue, otherwise the only thing I can think of is forbid/unforbid your tasked item to see who it is that's trying to haul your items.

Also, will idlers go into the library? Even if there aren't books in there you should have a few dawdlers, especially if you turn off other meeting areas.

I just tried removing the library zone and recreating it.

I've also tried forbidding/unforbidding the tasked items, but it doesn't seem to help. I also tried moving some quires out of the workshop and forbidding those in the workshop, but the issue still persists.

Yeah, people seem to like hanging out in the library, it's always rather busy.


Are you playing the latest version? This bug was only just fixed (in 44.06). If it's still happening it needs to be reported.

Yeah I am. However, I'm using DFHack, so I'm not sure if it's really worth reporting seeing as it *could* be caused by DFHack...
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Madrigal

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Re: Questions regarding Scholars
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2018, 06:40:26 pm »

Have you tried increasing the number of written objects allowed in your library?
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TheDorf

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Re: Questions regarding Scholars
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2018, 08:54:03 pm »

Have you tried increasing the number of written objects allowed in your library?

How do I do this?

I've set the desired amount of writing material up to 30, but the library is basically empty of quires even though it was set to 10 before. Also, what exactly is the "a" option? "Total number of each to scribe"? Is it the amount I want of each text?

There's a bug that's fixed in 0.44.06 that causes interrupted writing to never resume and that to block further writing. I think forbidding and unforbidding that particular quire would unblock things, but you may want to look it up on the bug tracker.

There's also something odd happening when/if you hook up a museum to a library: when I did, quires weren't hauled to the coffers and visitors took books, went to the museum, and dropped them there after reading, and none of them were brought back to the bookcases.

Scholar petitions are somewhat rarer than performance ones, in my experience, but there's probably a fair bit of variation among the worlds. I don't get many/any fighter visitors any more (I've never accepted any), and like to think they've adapted/learned that my fortress isn't interested. On the other hand, the hordes of artifact hunters have ceased as well. I may have killed them all (trying to sneak in carries a death penalty, and when I kill the sneakers their infiltrator buddies pretend to be innocent while some of them just scare citizens and run around scared themselves, while some offhandedly fire bolts while still pretending to socialize. The infiltrators have to be killed off as well. None of the infiltrators are displayed as hostile).

So you've had Scholars petition for citizenship in at least some worlds? Do you need to hook bedrooms up to the library? I've got plenty of bedrooms assigned to my tavern, and seeing as everybody else is fine with that, I assumed Scholars would be as well. However, I did assign a few bedrooms to the library as a test, but those were simply given out to my citizens while still being part of the library. Maybe this broke the library, in a similar fashion to hooking up a museum to it?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 09:07:09 pm by TheDorf »
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I love this community. Somebody asks "hay guise how do i tame shark", and then everybody is like "why don't we fling sharks at things with complex mechanical devices?".

Khthon

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Re: Questions regarding Scholars
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2018, 10:06:51 pm »

Also, what exactly is the "a" option? "Total number of each to scribe"? Is it the amount I want of each text?
My experience, this is how many copies of any given text you want your scribes to make, which is especially important if you have your library open to freeloading kleptomaniacs visitors who run off with your books.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Questions regarding Scholars
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2018, 02:57:51 am »

I've got at least a few former sage citizens, in fact (most of the naturalized citizens used to be performers).
Bedrooms for residents should be hooked up to the tavern: if hooked up to the library or temple they won't work, I think (there are reports on the forum. I don't remember if those bedrooms were claimed by citizens instead, but they didn't work as bedrooms for residents tied to libraries [and there aren't any tied to temples yet], and your experience confirms that).
I doubt assigning bedrooms to libraries will break them: the museum breakage was essentially caused by the museum usurping the library rather than enhancing it. When I moved the museum link to the tavern it worked a bit better in that socializing is performed in both places, but no instruments were moved to the tavern (or, indeed, at all) until I installed chests in the library, at which time instruments were moved there. As I don't employ poisoners in my tavern I don't know what would happen with goblets or if a museum would block poisoning activities.

The scribe option is indeed how many copies of each original you want. However, I don't care about copying. Visiting scholars steal books, but they also write books (assuming it isn't stalled), and the thieving/infiltrating artifact seekers frequently carry lots of books that I have to take care of once they've been put down. When I last checked, I had over 500 books.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Questions regarding Scholars
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2018, 08:12:34 am »

Yeah, if you link a bedroom to the temple or library, it becomes a regular bedroom that a regular citizen dwarf will claim. All long-term residents stay at the tavern regardless of their purpose.
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