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[srifenbyxp]

So i'm going to get back into master work and the last time I used it I had a bretty gud human town going on, but I never paid much attention to guns. If I recall correctly humans can't make Candy or Steel but they can makes guns via gunsmith building I think it was. I've always been a hack and slash man but realistically you can't beat technology.

What makes guns worth it to sacrifice steel and candy? Are guns objectively better than Bows/Crossbows in terms of damage and reach? Also are cannons still a thing?

*Edit humans can make steels now it seems, either way. Guns or Candy?

[Amostubal]

okay the human guns are actually stored in item_z_weapon_orcfort (don't ask I didn't design it)

Code: [Select]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AIRGUN]
[NAME:flint lock pistol:flint lock pistol]
[SIZE:450]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[RANGED:BLOWGUN:BULLET]
[SHOOT_FORCE:25000]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:25000]
[TWO_HANDED:2500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:1500]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:1]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:4000:club:clubs:stock:1250]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:3000:poke:pokes:end:1250]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:5000:bludgeon:bludgeons:stock:1300]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:2000:slap:slaps:shaft:1250]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AIRGUN_BAY]
[NAME:flint lock pistol:flint lock pistol]
[ADJECTIVE:bayonetted]
[SIZE:450]
[SKILL:DAGGER]
[RANGED:BLOWGUN:BULLET]
[SHOOT_FORCE:25000]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:25000]
[TWO_HANDED:2500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:52500]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:1]
[ATTACK:EDGE:5:1000:stab:stabs:bayonet:1000]
[ATTACK:EDGE:5:1000:perforate:perforates:bayonet:1100]
[ATTACK:EDGE:5:2000:run through:runs through:bayonet:1100]
[ATTACK:EDGE:5000:2000:slash:slashes:NO_SUB:1100]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MUSKET]
[NAME:musket:muskets]
[SIZE:450]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[RANGED:BLOWGUN:BULLET]
[SHOOT_FORCE:50000]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:50000]
[TWO_HANDED:77500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:1500]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:4000:club:clubs:stock:1250]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:3000:poke:pokes:end:1250]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:5000:bludgeon:bludgeons:stock:1300]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:2000:slap:slaps:shaft:1250]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MUSKET_BAY]
[NAME:musket:muskets]
[ADJECTIVE:bayonetted]
[SIZE:450]
[SKILL:SPEAR]
[RANGED:BLOWGUN:BULLET]
[SHOOT_FORCE:50000]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:50000]
[TWO_HANDED:77500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:52500]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]
[ATTACK:EDGE:5:1000:stab:stabs:bayonet:1000]
[ATTACK:EDGE:5:1000:impale:impales:menacing point:2000]
[ATTACK:EDGE:5:1000:perforate:perforates:bayonet:1100]
[ATTACK:EDGE:5:2000:run through:runs through:bayonet:1100]

[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BULLET]
[NAME:bullet:bullet]
[CLASS:BULLET]
[SIZE:25]
[ATTACK:EDGE:5:5000:pierce:pierces:NO_SUB:7500]
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]
That's the guns and the bullet... the musket has better velocity and force than the pistol.  choice of bayonet over not is the choice of dagger/spear over hammer skill when combat range is closed in on.

here are the raws for bow/crossbow/arrow/bolt

Code: [Select]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BOW]
[NAME:bow:bows]
[SIZE:300]
[SKILL:SWORD]
[RANGED:BOW:ARROW]
[SHOOT_FORCE:1000]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:200]
[TWO_HANDED:0]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:15000]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:4000:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:1250]
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CROSSBOW]
[NAME:crossbow:crossbows]
[SIZE:400]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[RANGED:CROSSBOW:BOLT]
[SHOOT_FORCE:1000]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:200]  This is just to make sure a near-weightless object doesn't go faster than the string could possibly go.
[TWO_HANDED:0]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:15000]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:4000:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:1250]
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]

[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BOLTS] => these are bodkin bolts, normal ones. Fast, but small impact.
[NAME:bolt:bolts]
[CLASS:BOLT]
[SIZE:150]
[ATTACK:EDGE:5:1000:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:1000]
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]

[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_ARROWS]
[NAME:arrow:arrows]
[CLASS:ARROW]
[SIZE:150]
[ATTACK:EDGE:5:1000:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:1000]
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]

Now then there is almost no difference between the base stats of arrows/bows and bolts/crossbows (there really isn't ranged or physical damage).

Guns win hands down in velocity and force.  their bullets are 1/6th the size so a quiver should be able to hold 6 times the amount (49 max in bolts and arrows mean that bullets are around ~290 max should be... can't promise those numbers).  bullets have higher attack values.  once you figure in the velocity and force of the weapons, the size of the bullet, and the damage of the bullet, the flintlock is about twice as good and the musket is approximately 4 times better... that's an estimate, I didn't want to get into the complex math of it basically 2 speed * 5 damage * 1/6 size, flintlock/bullet compared to bow/arrow, etc. etc. 

Range doesn't increase.  range is more based on the accuracy/skill of the user and the distance of vision... so since bowmen generally start shooting at their max range of vision... I'm sure so will musketeers.  the difference is the bullet will arrive at the target faster overall, causing damage sooner, and slowing the target earlier, allowing more time for a second,third, or fourth strike.

the biggest issue is the "industry", the time to get to bows and arrows is effectively 0... you can build the shop and be working instantly.  guns will take time to set up, require mined veins or trade shops to get materials, will require a human workshop which means at least the first caravan to get a contract or spin the wheel at the merchant's guild...  other option is to increment your trade shop industry till you can start purchasing guns and bullets to maintain an army... either case its going to take time, and most likely a lot of money to keep going.