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[Asin]

Basically dwarves in world gen could breed dogs or cats for certain traits and it could lead to breeds starting to appear.

An example would be a "Dwarven Terrier". Bred for digging, it was shaped this way through the ages by breeding. Maybe some breeds came about by accident...


Now... Begin the discussion.

[StagnantSoul]

Only if it could result in bombardier terriers.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Should apply to all pets. And certainly not just to dwarves.
System should be robust enough to cope with migrations too. Those goblins who took over the forest retreat 700 years ago? Tree climbing trolls and gliding beak dogs.

[Eric Blank]

We might get stuff like this along with proceduraly generated races and fantasy creatures, which is planned to happen eventually. After the myth update and along with a fantasy slider, i think, since that was a prerequisite for justifying the existance of these fantasy things.

[Shonai_Dweller]

We might get stuff like this along with proceduraly generated races and fantasy creatures, which is planned to happen eventually. After the myth update and along with a fantasy slider, i think, since that was a prerequisite for justifying the existance of these fantasy things.

Sure, but there's nothing specifically been said so far about evolving pets/livestock over the course of worldgen so it's a valid suggestion.
How long does it take to to breed cave working dogs anyhow?

[LMeire]

We might get stuff like this along with proceduraly generated races and fantasy creatures, which is planned to happen eventually. After the myth update and along with a fantasy slider, i think, since that was a prerequisite for justifying the existance of these fantasy things.

Sure, but there's nothing specifically been said so far about evolving pets/livestock over the course of worldgen so it's a valid suggestion.
How long does it take to to breed cave working dogs anyhow?

Well it took Dmitry Belyayev a little over 50 years to domesticate wild foxes into a unique "Georgian White" breed, so that's probably a good starting point.

[Shonai_Dweller]

50 years is good. In a decent length of world history, that gives scholars time to ponder the mysteries of pet breeding before they give it a shot.

Of course, that's assuming year 0 is meant to be the beginning of the world right after mythgen spits it out. If any pre-history is assumed, any useful breeding will probably already be complete. Then it's just a matter of 'procgen the appropriate pets for the civs', done.

At that point you have to question whether there's any point doing it at all since most 'normal' games will end up with the same types of pets every time.

[NJW2000]

Surely the time needed should be counted in generations, rather than in years? Something like X generations needed to produce new breed from basic/wild stock?

Also, people seem to be mostly ignoring the main point of special breeding of animals: agriculture and labour. So certain sheep breeds should be far more productive of wool, meat, fat, etc than the basic sheep (which is now, I think, equivalent to a wild sheep).

Dog breeds shoud certainly get either larger, better at fighting (bigger teeth, natural skills), or more valuable, though I can't think of any other characteristics the game can model.

In essence, special breeds should have different in-game mechanical characteristics, even if its just a brief description and a value modifier. Otherwise it would be a pretty pointless addition. We don't need hypoallergenic cats until the game models allergies.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I was thinking of dogs being used for pulling minecarts and other underground labour where mules are just too big. What do deep dwarves use for pets and animal labour?

Of course evolution over generations could apply to everyone, not just animals. I'm always amused by the dwarf group who've lived in a forest retreat for the past 500 years yet they complain about being out in the open and not one of them has any climbing skill...

[Bumber]

Cat breed that can teleport through locked doors.

[FantasticDorf]

Dwarf pony sized tiny horses that only need limited pasture space and can eat moss grass in its sparsity indefinitely.

Atleast any breeds that come out of it should have a recognized cultural name discovered, and generic base trait. I think this pokemon approach to everything evolving procedural is kind of unrealistic but if a random puppy was born as a new breed post domestication, in like you say a 50 year window of keeping a unbroken lineage of pets (with butchering and sorting etc) it could eventually spawn a breed.

> You start to buy fighting dogs from the humans out of a existing worldgen breed close to a alsation in its additional characteristics, they are bigger and more muscly.

> Usual adaption is cave adaption, so unless its too extreme you have dogs with better cavern vision but tend to vomit uncontrollably on the surface. I mean if a creature has no eyes it shouldn't be able to adapt in such a way etc. Not sure how magic would impact on that, if you zapped it with body or mutation altering spells all the time.

> Animals that are bigger, should be distinct from animals that are naturally giant, a domesticated giant chinchilla for instance only variably become slightly bigger or smaller with adaptions, and a regular chinchilla can't grow that big. Carrying over genetics is already a thing, so there's plenty of opportunity to have random mongrel animals, but being clearer cut with breeds could be useful.

Useful indicator for when you're near to a breed - "It is a mongrel, it has the emerging traits of X" as such from buying and analying random animals (even animals the elves give you)

[GoblinCookie]

I was thinking of dogs being used for pulling minecarts and other underground labour where mules are just too big. What do deep dwarves use for pets and animal labour?

Of course evolution over generations could apply to everyone, not just animals. I'm always amused by the dwarf group who've lived in a forest retreat for the past 500 years yet they complain about being out in the open and not one of them has any climbing skill...

Adding traits through 'evolution' is going to be harder than simply taking existing variations that are defined in the raws initially and making them into breeds. 

[FantasticDorf]

I was thinking of dogs being used for pulling minecarts and other underground labour where mules are just too big. What do deep dwarves use for pets and animal labour?

Of course evolution over generations could apply to everyone, not just animals. I'm always amused by the dwarf group who've lived in a forest retreat for the past 500 years yet they complain about being out in the open and not one of them has any climbing skill...

Adding traits through 'evolution' is going to be harder than simply taking existing variations that are defined in the raws initially and making them into breeds.

Use a creature variation file, put in generic class bigger/smaller by a minimal sizer percentage along with other BP things, some traits and bobs your uncle. Tie that up into a tag and add some way to manually add a full breed description (CV:BREED:yorkie dog - small, brown, [DOMESTIC]) to the creature file and you're all sorted.

Animals in the wild breed by themselves, so if there is a small amount of variation without explicitly needing to explain a caste its basically a subspecies while a completely different entry is a abstract animal that doesn't overlap. Cows with or without horns are still cows. If you have a black panther or a creature with all white & red eyes albinism its just a percentage of a breed that is randomly born.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I was thinking of dogs being used for pulling minecarts and other underground labour where mules are just too big. What do deep dwarves use for pets and animal labour?

Of course evolution over generations could apply to everyone, not just animals. I'm always amused by the dwarf group who've lived in a forest retreat for the past 500 years yet they complain about being out in the open and not one of them has any climbing skill...

Adding traits through 'evolution' is going to be harder than simply taking existing variations that are defined in the raws initially and making them into breeds.

As is procedurally generated dragons, magic based on a unique world mythology and pretty much everything else planned for DF. This is the suggestions forum, not the mod request thread. If Toady decides it's what he wants to do, he'll just code it, replacing systems which make it hard as necessary.